Warrior Moms: Surviving Child Loss
A club no one wants to be in because the initiation is too big of a sacrifice: the loss of a child. Unthinkable. Unimaginable. Warrior Moms is local group in north Atlanta filled with strong, courageous, funny, and fiercely loving women who are surviving and thriving amidst horrific grief.
This podcast features Amy Durham and Michele Davis, two of the Warrior Moms, who will guide listeners through their grief journey. Every fourth or fifth episode will showcase another Warrior Mom, the trauma they endured, stories about their beloved child, and tips on how they get out of bed every day.
Each and every Warrior Moms' story is different, the children and the loss is different, but one thing they share is the decision to live. They have figured out how to live life putting one foot in the past and the other moving forward. Yes, it's beyond awful. Yes, it's hard. Yes, it's worth it. And yes, they say, you can survive child loss AND thrive.
Warrior Moms: Surviving Child Loss
Rae Ann Gruver-- Advocacy Helps Her Grief: Ep 35
The heartbreaking story of Max Gruver sheds light on the often unseen dangers of hazing in college settings. His mother, Rae Ann, joins Michele and Amy to share not only the tragedy that took her son's life but also the mission that has risen from her love of Max. Together with hosts, Rae Ann discusses Max's vibrant spirit and the circumstances that led to his untimely death due to hazing rituals that demanded he consume deadly amounts of alcohol.
In this episode, we explore what hazing really looks like and what we can do to prevent another tragedy from occurring. Rae Ann highlights the pivotal moment on that tragic night when a simple call to 911 could have made all the difference. She passionately advocates for young adults to have the courage to intervene when they see someone in danger, and she shares the necessary steps individuals can take to safeguard others' lives.
The discussion also touches on the powerful work Rae Ann and her family have undertaken to create awareness about hazing, addressing young people directly to share Max's story, and encourage them to speak out against dangerous practices. Her insights into the grieving process reveal how advocacy can serve as a therapeutic journey, finding purpose through pain.
Join us for this emotional conversation and become a part of the movement to raise awareness and prevent hazing. Together, we can honor Max's legacy and ensure that no other family has to experience such profound loss.
Please visit: www.maxgruverfoundation.com for more information about the Gruver's advocacy and fundraising events.
Visit the Warrior Moms' website to read more about our book we are writing and to reach out to us with feedback and potential podcast topics: www.warriormoms.me
With love always,
Michele & Amy
Warrior Moms
"Dream Bird" by Jonny Easton
Thank you for listening to Warrior Moms podcast. It is an honor to share about our beloved children gone too soon, and we hope by telling of our loss, it may help someone in their grief journey. Please note that we are not medical professionals and encourage those listening to seek help from mental health professionals.
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Website: https://www.warriormoms.me/
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With love,
Warrior Moms Amy & Michele
Hello and welcome back to Warrior Moms. I am Michelle Davis.
Speaker 2:And I am Amy Durham and we have our dear friend Miss Raeann here to talk about Max and she. They have a big 5k run coming up soon so we wanted to kind of just talk about that and all the things so we're so glad to hear from you Well, thanks for having me back again.
Speaker 3:I always love being on your podcast and talking to you, lovely ladies, so thank you once again for thinking of us. We love it. So yeah, thank you so much.
Speaker 1:Yes, well, tell us you know. I know you have an episode where we go. You know much further in depth about Max and the tragedy, but let's just give a little bit of backdrop. Let's just start with who Max was and how missed he is.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so my son, max Groover, he was a freshman, he was 18 years old and he, you know, went away to college. He went to LSU and he, you know, went away to college. He went to LSU and he, you know, went right through rush when he got there to join a fraternity so he could, you know, meet new people and stuff like that at a really big school and he really liked several and he he landed up deciding that he wanted to join Phi Delta, theta and you know he went into that process very, you know, open and happy and really loved his pledge brothers and all that kind of good stuff. And you know he went into that process very, you know, open and happy and really loved his pledge brothers and all that kind of good stuff. And, um, he was real happy. Max was a real happy kid, very laid back, very, very easy going, just, you know, really just was one of those people that was just kind of like everybody's friend and always wanted everyone included and stuff and, um, you know, just a good kid.
Speaker 3:And unfortunately, um, during the 29 days that he was there, um, the fraternity was hazing their new members and, um, there were several things that we found out later. That happened during those couple of weeks but, um, on September 13th they had an event that they again in a nutshell, not the whole night, but basically they forced Max and the other pledges to consume copious amounts of 190 proof grain alcohol. You know Max consumed so much alcohol that he landed up obviously with alcohol poisoning. He had a blood alcohol of .495, which is six times the legal limit, and he died on the fraternity couch that night. And you know the whole situation is very
Speaker 3:unfortunate. Obviously no one called 911. They knew Max was in trouble. He was cold and clammy, his lips, his fingers were turning blue, he had the weak pulse and all that. And nobody called 911. They were too chicken, to be honest, too scared, they were going to get in trouble and they unfortunately let a life go because of that. So our big mission since then is to raise awareness about hazing and what it is and what to watch out for and what you can do to stop it or walk out on it and feel empowered with all that, and then also to call 911. In these situations Don't play Russian roulette with another person's life, like let the medical you know medical professional come in there and help and um take care of that situation, Cause I mean, for all we know, if they had just called 9-1-1 that night, max could be here. So again, always err on that side of caution.
Speaker 3:You know You're on that side of caution, you know is it a there's a law to like?
Speaker 2:no fault for calling Right.
Speaker 3:There is Most of the states have a medical amnesty law, that good Samaritan law and what it states in there is if you call when a person's like in peril like Max was and no matter what's been going on, if you're at a party or wherever and you've been drinking or you've smoked pot or you did whatever, if you call 911, you stay with that person.
Speaker 3:You don't clean anything up, you tell the emergency personnel or the police or both everything that's gone on. Don't hide anything, don't change anything, just let them know. And if you're cooperating in that whole situation, they will not hold you liable. That law is there to also protect you, so you will go ahead and do the right thing and not worry about oh my God, I'm going to get in trouble for this. And then you make a bad decision, which is I might sacrifice this person's life because I'm too worried and I don't actually think that's most people's reasoning, but they don't really realize this person really could die if I don't call my mom, and they've you know, you know, most likely also been drinking, so their judgment is impaired too.
Speaker 3:And you know, I mean I always think about it too. It's like imagine, like I mean if you were sitting there and checking someone's pulse and checking somebody's breathing and you you already know in your gut something's so bad like, like you're nervous and all that. I mean what are you really going to do when that person's pulse stops? Then I mean you're just call, call before you even get to that situation. Get an ambulance there. They will transport right to the ER and they will get IV fluids in them and they will, you know, sober these people up and they will be able to monitor them. You may be also impaired at the time too. Are not going to what if you pass out? And you know you're not going to be able to keep monitoring that person. So again, it's just err on that side of caution. Call 911. I mean, what I would do if someone had called 911 and Max was still here? He?
Speaker 2:could have been. He could have been. I mean, he could have been saved. You don't know. You don't know, but yes, but chances would have been a lot stronger had someone called.
Speaker 3:Yes, you know, and too, I think for us too as the parents, it's like you know, why wouldn't you call 9-1-1 for this person that you know is in trouble? And like that always kills us too, like the hazing is horrible, that someone would treat your child like that or anyone like that, but then when that person is in you know need of help and you don't call 911, like how do you not call 911 to help that person? And that just kills me too. Like just there's like a double whammy with it, like you're screwed up over here and now you're even more screwing up because you won't even get the kid help after you've put him in this predicament yeah, you know, well and right and I know I've said this time and time again to you, or I've thought it at least is I think that kids especially don't understand that it really can happen.
Speaker 2:You know, I mean, they just don't. I don't think that they do, I don't think that they think that that's going to happen. They're going to drink too much and then die. I just don't think, and that's why I think y'all's mission is so important in the high schools and the colleges is because, oh, you just drink too much, you're going to throw up, you're going to wake up and it doesn't always happen like that?
Speaker 3:It does not always happen and it happens a lot more than people think, even without the hazing part of it involved. But people over drinking and being encouraged to over drink, and then the alcohol, you know poisoning, that goes on and um and people dying from it is just it's, you know it's, it is really bad and people do need to be aware of it, and just that like taking care of yourself, you know and saying no, like I don't, I don't need another shot or I don't need to do this and I've had enough, like you have to know yourself too, and all of these kinds of situations.
Speaker 3:So it's just. It is trying to make that things more aware, right, just? Really think about it.
Speaker 1:As I listened to you. I you know, of course Amy and I have been, you know, in your shoes in terms of losing a child, and I know those first months and and the first two years how unbelievably painful I mean, when all of us talk about how they're just, are not words. I just, whenever I listen to you, I am just in such awe of the just, your love for Max and and the drive that that really you must have pushed through to to seek that very first opportunity to have a conversation with the school, with the fraternity or sorority. Can you just talk us through, like, how did you get to that step? And and, um, just, yeah, talk us through that.
Speaker 3:I just right at the beginning. I mean literally. I mean I say this when we do presentations. But, um, the night before we buried Max, I was looking for a journal. I probably have talked about it on your podcast before, but we found this journal. I did find the journal. It wasn't the one I was looking for, but it was another one and it had a paper in there that he had written on blessings when he was 16. And that last paragraph ended with his quote that we use everywhere. But it's.
Speaker 3:You know, god works in funny ways. He does bad things sometimes because in the end they are good. Something bad can happen to you, but in the end it may make you better. He does bad to ultimately create good. And I got chills right now I saw that. I burst into tears. I ran to my sister. I was like read what Max wrote, look what he wrote.
Speaker 3:Like we have to do something. We have to do something to change this culture. We have to. This is horrible. Like we have to make something good out of this. And that is literally what has been our driving force since then. It's just I could sit here and dwell in the negative, right, we all could, and some days I do, but I really try hard not to. I've got to find that good out of this bad, which is, if I can't help somebody else in these situations make a better decision and call 911 or help that friend or deter a hazing situation or whatever the case might be. If I change somebody's mind about any of those things, then I've done the best I can in light of losing my son, and I do it all for him and for all of our kids. Like it's just.
Speaker 3:I just don't want to see these kinds of things happen to somebody else, because it's senseless and pointless and 100% preventable. You know, absolutely.
Speaker 1:So where did you like, what was? What was the first place that you reached to have a conversation and then take us to that first time being on stage in front of people.
Speaker 3:Well, actually my sister started at first, like I mean, we knew eventually I would speak or we were hoping. I don't really know that. We knew I shouldn't say that, but my sister started speaking in Miami to a couple high schools there and her and a friend of mine from high school put a presentation together to take to my friend's high school and my sister did it there and she did it a few times. It was really kind of amazing how it all transpired. Again, somebody's working up there to make all this happen, right.
Speaker 3:And then in May of 2018, so you know, that end of that school year after Max died, um blessed Trinity, which is where Max went to school and graduated. The year before, um had Steve and I come to speak to the seniors at their senior breakfast and that was the first time Steve and I ever spoke and it was very moving and and then obviously, we know a bunch of the kids in the class because they're all seniors and they grew up with Max and all that kind of stuff. But but it was also just a great experience to be able to share Max's story and what we had been through, but then also to tell these kids like, in the next few months, you're about to go off and these are the things you might experience and you, you know, do the right thing. And the stories we heard after that were just so incredible and that we'd been hearing about people who were wearing Max's, you know wristbands and you know somebody that was like I stepped in when I saw somebody trying to force somebody to take more shots and I told them hey, no more.
Speaker 3:Or someone on their own looking at the bracelet and was like at a party and like you know what, I don't need another drink, or somebody was somebody passed out in the bushes and you know someone saying, oh, don't call nine one, one, don't call. And they're like, no, we're calling nine one one because of Max Groover. So those kinds of stories started rolling in about how people were remembering just Max's story and like wait a minute, maybe I need to make a different decision on this. And that just keeps you going, like those stories and that push forward. And then we started getting you know requests from like colleges and fraternities and sororities and then, like I said, it just kept building from there and we would meet so many great young adults 18 to 20, 22, that wanted this hazing culture to change.
Speaker 3:And they were in it for the right reasons and we saw all these people with the right reasons of wanting to be in a brotherhood, a sisterhood, a teammate, and I think if we hadn't met those people too, you would just not see the positive side of things and how they want to stand up against it and change it.
Speaker 1:And we were there to help that and if we can help that again, we'll keep doing what we're doing to keep that moving forward journey and sort of kind of aligning, maybe just being able to kind of face some of this together a little bit, because that's that's really hard as couples, of course, is we all grieve on different paces and so forth.
Speaker 3:What did that do for y'all, I think, in that time when, at the beginning, and Steve would travel a little bit with me more than than he does now and we would, you know, present together or with some other, like couple of friends that also had lost their child to hazing, and, um, honestly, I think in some ways it was it, it was good for both of us, cause it was like it was a place to take your grief and like, get it out there and share it. And I guess I mean it's so raw and open and honest. Even tonight I'm presenting tonight and I don't I could cry through half his story. You know, you just never know Like, but again, it's part of it is like, it was almost like you could.
Speaker 3:I can't ever say that word. You know what word I'm saying. Put it in the box a little bit and, like I can, let it flow there.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yes, I can never say it, but you know, get it out there and you know and take that time. But then it was like then I could center back a little bit, but it was a. It was a great place to to put a lot of that grief and I kind of feel like that bit of that too right, like we just had that place in those presentations that you just really could get some of that out the sadness, the anger, the happiness too. You know, and you nailed it.
Speaker 2:I think that talking I think a lot of us that are advocate for different things and are able to talk about our tragedy and our children and stuff like that I honestly believe that we heal a little bit. I believe that we heal a little bit every time we talk.
Speaker 1:Yes A little bit.
Speaker 2:every time we speak there's a little bit more. That heals just a little bit, but then the Band-Aid can be ripped off at any moment. But at least we're giving ourselves the time and the space to speak and do, and I just think that sometimes advocating for something in honor of our children helps the heart so much.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think you just said it great right there. That's exactly it, I think. I think that's exactly what's been continuing me going like this for seven and a half years, and it is that it's it's to be able to share in Max's life. I get to talk about him at the beginning of the presentation and I, you know, I want you to know him Like I knew him. I want you to know he's just like you guys out there in the audience.
Speaker 3:You know he's, he was just a great kid going off to college too, like sitting, just like you are, you know, so, um, and then you share in the pain too, and and and I get to talk about it and freely talk about it, you know, and I think it helps. I do think it helps, and and again, advocating for some, a change to make something better for other people and make them aware, like the work you do, and I mean it's just, it is it's just. I think it helps our hearts a lot. I think they're never going to be amended, but I think it helps. You know, stitch it up a little bit until it.
Speaker 2:A little bit, yes, until it breaks again. If the thing breaks through, yeah. So in order to, y'all are doing a 5k run coming up. I know y'all do several fundraisers throughout the year. What's your favorite?
Speaker 3:Which one's your favorite, oh, I don't know. You know what we do the two big ones which we do do the races so fun. We have a great morning every time. That morning, and it's just, I love seeing everybody come out. This year, you know, it's coming up on March 1st and a couple of days, we are like at 296 runners right now and, um, you know, it's just very exciting. We always have a great turnout and everybody's just, you know, there to support and just the fact that in all these seven years I can't believe it's seven years but people still support us so much and back us and and want to help us keep doing good things for other people. So that's huge, you know. And so we do love the race. But then in August we do that really fun, you know, we have the over at deep roots and Roswell we have that great wine tasting with an auction, and this last year we added in the corn hole. I mean, the corn hole was so much fun.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh this year and it was such a blast, Raeann.
Speaker 3:So fun, so fun and we're so excited about this year. We've got some big plans.
Speaker 2:Have you all been practicing right now?
Speaker 3:Well, you know my whole family's on a cornhole league on Wednesday nights over at Gate City.
Speaker 2:So I practice every week.
Speaker 3:I am not good but yes, we practice every week technically. But yeah, we're super excited. We've got a lot of big plans for this August. With you know, deep Roots is going to do some more stuff. It's going to be great Like we can't wait. So that's like I think, august 17th or 18th right around there, but it's really a fun afternoon too, right.
Speaker 3:And then actually in a couple of weeks, a friend of mine, this wonderful guy Max. He owns Safe Haven Gym and he called us. He likes to do stuff with local nonprofits and he's supported us for years. I just love him and his organization and he's going to do a fundraiser which we're about to put out with working out and just all this stuff. So that's going to do a fundraiser which we're about to put out with working out and just all this stuff. So that's going to be fun when he's sending me over a little one page on that, so you'll start seeing things about that. I love to do the little ones in the big fundraisers. It's just again, you're creating the awareness, you're getting out there and talking to people and making sure they really know what's going on and you know this is it. What can we do to help, you know, and so it's good, it's good, it's been really good and we've really expanded. I might be jumping ahead of myself now.
Speaker 1:No, keep going. Yeah, that was our question. Is is keep going. You know, like what is it that you know? Besides just the not just, but besides the education, how else does? What else do you do with the foundation?
Speaker 3:Well, actually, well back with the actually the education pieces. You know, we the last several years have been really focused mostly on, you know, the colleges and the organizations and stuff like that on the higher ed side and organizations and stuff like that on the higher ed side. But the last like two years we've really started focusing on high schools, because I think it's very important to get to the high school student, especially those high school seniors, and, like this spring semester, I really focused on high schools and I think we're speaking at like 20 high schools. High schools are high school organizations this spring, which is just amazing to me. It's really just each year it keeps expanding and expanding, and expanding and we've just gotten a lot of great feedback from the public schools, from the private schools in our area.
Speaker 3:I have some schools in Miami we've spoken with over in Nebraska. Somebody just requested for us to come out to Oregon. So I'm just very like I hate to say the word excited when you're talking about this, but I am excited. This is what we've been working for for you know, max's Foundation and the advocacy, and I just Well, I'm in awe, I'm in awe that it has spread.
Speaker 2:I mean, it's only been seven years, you know, and it's gone all the way to the other side of the United.
Speaker 3:States. You know, yeah. So I mean it's just great, like it's, and that's like where we're kind of like. I mean, obviously the colleges we will definitely keep doing, but like, like this spring I was like I really want to focus on these high schools so we really get a landing in there, like we do have with the higher ed and stuff and it. You know it's, it's working, it's great. You know so.
Speaker 3:And we work with Phi Delta, theta, on that other high school program. So we have two. It's either me and Steve doing our version or I do speak. Like just a week ago I was at a YMSL group and the Phi Delta from Georgia Tech came and spoke with me and it's, you know, a peer to peer type presentation. So I mean these, the moms loved it, the kids loved it, the seniors loved it I shouldn't call them kids, but the young men loved it, like just because it was very interactive and you're talking to guys. That is going to be you in a year. I mean that's going to be you and that's been a really good program too. So I like seeing these things that we've kind of been planning, you know, for the last few years really coming to fruition right Like they're there, they're happening and and I think it's great, it's incredible work.
Speaker 1:Absolutely incredible.
Speaker 3:Well, thank you. You ladies are sweet.
Speaker 1:Well um what advice would you give other grieving moms or parents about you know moms or parents about? You know just how do you lean in and and um you know, brace yourself for being so vulnerable and just afraid.
Speaker 2:I mean public speaking is is certainly hard, and just yeah, Were you afraid of public speaking before, or were you like it's no big deal?
Speaker 3:Um, I wouldn't say I was afraid of it.
Speaker 3:I remember in college I loved it, Like I liked my public speaking class, but I was a nurse, it wasn't like I needed to keep doing public speaking, so it was kind of funny when I first started speaking.
Speaker 3:I mean, yeah, I definitely, you know, get nervous, but there is something, obviously, when you're so passionate about something to be able to stand up there and speaking about it, that makes the difference too. I mean, and you feel it, like I can feel it when I'm speaking, and it's it's a different tone, it's a different. You know, and I'm not trying to lecture them or you know, no, you're being bad kid, no, I mean, it's just my, it's just taking your passion and you want them to feel it and I think they do Right and it's just, you know, I, I don't know it, just I guess it's I'm kind of natural at it, but I'm natural at it because I am so passionate about it. Like if you had me going up there to I don't know, talk about something else, I'd be like I'd probably be stuttering and I don't know what to say and I've run off the stage.
Speaker 1:Well, and you know, I've I've gone to your presentations and I mean, you know, here you give this and it was that particular one you and Steve had given it together and, um, it was just amazing to see the long line that just instantly started after you were done. You know that they, they wanted the conversation to continue and to have that face to face and to say thank you.
Speaker 3:It was that was so. I mean equally moving to me as watching y, when those students come up and some come up they want to hug you or about somebody else that they know this has happened to, or maybe they had a sibling that passed away for some reason and they want to talk to you about that. Or some of them come up and say, oh my God, you remind me so much of my mom, or I can't imagine my mom doing this, but thank you for doing that. Like it's just, there's that connection there and it's again. It's very moving and again, another thing that makes you you like I'm reaching them and I want to keep reaching them like this and you're doing god's work.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, keep moving forward with it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, 100 uh, interrupted michelle's question to you earlier. What advice do you have?
Speaker 3:good job. That's scary.
Speaker 2:IDD is on fire sometimes.
Speaker 1:But just yeah, the advice you would have to other grieving parents.
Speaker 3:you know wanting to do something but maybe a little nervous about it you know, I have a friend who just lost her son this past um fall really sad story and um um from gun violence, and she definitely wants to advocate for her son, and I do keep talking to her about it. You know, and again it's sort of like a you need this time, right now too, though, to grieve, have those plans, and she's doing some things. But I'm like, and again it's sort of like a, you need this time, right now too, though, to grieve, have those plans, and she's doing some things, but I'm like, don't they don't put in the cart before the horse, right, like, like it'll happen, naturally it will.
Speaker 3:But, right you, we all needed that time. We need that time, um, cause it's a lot once you really start doing a lot of that advocacy work and getting out there and doing stuff. But that energy it will take that I also tell her. It takes that grief energy and helps move it to something that you're trying to help somebody else with and hopefully prevent some gun violence with someone else and those kinds of things, and that will all come. It just doesn't have to come right now and listen to yourself, right, like I don't know how, what made me finally figure out. Okay, I was ready to speak in May, after Max had died in September, but I knew I guess I knew blessed Trinity was where I would want to start and um, and being there with, I think, a community obviously that we are so close with and so close with those students and um, so that helped me. You know, kind of do it.
Speaker 3:But, um, again, I think you have to listen to yourself, um, and go with like kind of just roll with how it starts, cause ours started off right Very, very small with giving out the wristbands to, you know Max's friends that were requesting them across the country, and then other chapters started asking us and then they were telling Max's story in their chapter meetings and giving out Max's wristbands, and that's like what started it, right, they? Everything always usually starts off small, and then it's just how you keep rolling with it and just allow the rolling forward, but not with overwhelming yourself, cause I think that's the other thing we can all do is there was plenty of times, I'm sure, I was at the brink of losing, losing it, you know, because you are so grief stricken and then you're stressing yourself out about these things you're doing, but you want to do them. But again, out about these things you're doing, but you want to do them, but again that all comes at a cost.
Speaker 2:You know to the rest of your family. That's what happened to me was I was like I have to do something, I have to do something, and then you start doing it. And then I was like three and a half years in and I completely shut down, like I had to back up everything and just and now you know I just went in too big, too fast, too much, too too much and I had to take a step back and realize I don't, I can't be in the trenches. That was our. I can't be in the trenches. I can be back here doing what I needed. And it took a while, just like with you, it's taken a while to figure out that groove and where you need to be.
Speaker 3:Yes, and where you want it to be. Yes, yes, yeah.
Speaker 2:And it doesn't. And this is something that I had a hard time with and I still have a hard time with, because this is who we are is it doesn't have to be big, it doesn't just be mail and wristbands. It does not have to be big.
Speaker 3:And that's where I know and you're doing and you're helping someone like I mean, you're, you're doing what you feel you need to do. You know, for African, let's do it. And you're helping so many people, like when you do his pizza party yeah, you know party and and all that you feel after you come out of that. I mean that's huge, you know, and that's what it's about. And that again, right there there's like something very passionate and hey, maybe that keeps growing each year or you start something else, but you just let it go. Naturally, you just how it needs to go, and it doesn't matter big or small, and I think COVID helped me too.
Speaker 3:Like, I think us having to halt everything the way we did, I think that's pretty much like I was probably really very, very burnt out at that time and probably really ready to run for the hills. But COVID, of for also some of this you could. You're running from it. Right, you're kind of running from the grief a little bit and the tragedy of what's happened. And COVID makes you face it again Like I wasn't, I couldn't be like, oh, I got to go travel again.
Speaker 3:Like, do you know what I mean? Like, right, you had to sit with it. Yeah, you had to kind of sit with it and and then regroup, and then figure out, okay, what is my next game plan here, and then roll with it. And you know what? There's no right or wrong answers. It's what you have to do for you and your family, and all that, and, and yeah, doing big advocacy, doesn't you know? Yeah, I mean you got to travel all across the country. You know, it could be mailing wristbands, it could be, you know, going to some port groups and telling them about your story or your son's story, or Max's.
Speaker 3:You know what I mean Like whatever it might be, it's all for them, it's all good.
Speaker 2:It's all moving forward as long as you're moving forward.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yes, Well, what last question? What? What do you think um Max thinks of all of this, and and his mom and dad that are out there helping people.
Speaker 3:I think he thinks we're crazy. Honestly, I think I tell I say this all the time. I think he's like looking cause again. If you guys like knew him, I know, you know him, but you know, if you knew him, he I mean he would just be like probably shaking his head with that goofy grin and just like what are you doing? And all this for like and kind of like, all this for me Like, why me Like? What are you?
Speaker 1:doing yeah, like that humble spirit of it all.
Speaker 3:Like, like, like, like. Okay, Like you know, just, I just don't, I don't know. I mean, I think he smiles and he's, he's like way to go, but I think, at the end of the day, I think he is a little like you guys are nuts and thank you, but, um, I can't believe you did all this. You know, because of what happened to me. I do. I do think he thinks that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, which is fun, cause it's kind of, you know, like you still feel like there's this banter a bit. You know, yes, parent and child.
Speaker 3:Oh, 100% yes.
Speaker 1:Well, raeann, it's always so much fun to talk to you. I miss seeing you, I know.
Speaker 3:We've got to get together. I know let's do another dinner. I know I've missed so many of our Warrior Mom meetings, but let's try to just do a dinner again, like we did a few months ago. I would love to see everybody.
Speaker 2:I miss everybody so much. Me too. All right, well, thank you so much, yes, and thank you all.
Speaker 3:No, thank you.
Speaker 2:All the be-in-here listeners out there in the world. We will be back next week with someone else.
Speaker 1:And if you want to reach out to us, we have a website now, warriormomsme, and you can put in your name and email and reach out to us. We'd love to hear feedback and even if you have topics that you're interested in hearing us talk about, we would love to hear from you.
Speaker 2:We would love to hear from y'all. Yes, we need ideas for topics Always. Thanks guys, see you later. Thanks ladies, bye.
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