Warrior Moms: Surviving Child Loss
A club no one wants to be in because the initiation is too big of a sacrifice: the loss of a child. Unthinkable. Unimaginable. Warrior Moms is local group in north Atlanta filled with strong, courageous, funny, and fiercely loving women who are surviving and thriving amidst horrific grief.
This podcast features Amy Durham and Michele Davis, two of the Warrior Moms, who will guide listeners through their grief journey. Every fourth or fifth episode will showcase another Warrior Mom, the trauma they endured, stories about their beloved child, and tips on how they get out of bed every day.
Each and every Warrior Moms' story is different, the children and the loss is different, but one thing they share is the decision to live. They have figured out how to live life putting one foot in the past and the other moving forward. Yes, it's beyond awful. Yes, it's hard. Yes, it's worth it. And yes, they say, you can survive child loss AND thrive.
Warrior Moms: Surviving Child Loss
Stories and Strategies for missing Max Gruver and Cole Couey During the Christmas Season: Ep 32
Facing the holiday season after losing a child is an unimaginable challenge. Imagine the struggle of embracing Christmas traditions when the absence of a loved one is overwhelmingly palpable. In this episode, we're joined by Rae Ann Gruver and Brandy Couey, two courageous mothers who bravely share their journey through grief during the holidays. Together, we explore how each mother finds ways to honor their sons' memories and navigate the festive season with both sorrow and love.
As hosts, we, Michele Davis and Amy Durham, lead a discussion on the healing power of traditions, both old and new. Rae Ann shares the story of her friends who organized a touching tribute using ornaments to honor her son, Max, and Brandi shares about Cole's Christmas tree at the cemetery, both illustrating the significance of community support. Both Warrior Moms speak of how to give space for grief moments away from the holiday bustle. They delve into the creative ways they adapted their traditions, whether by baking cookies, decorating a thematic tree, or revisiting cherished rituals, all while allowing themselves the grace to process their emotions.
As we journey through the bittersweet landscape of holiday memories, we emphasize the importance of connection, presence, and creating meaningful experiences with loved ones. Together, we uncover how love, memory, and the support of others can transform holiday grief into a journey of hope and remembrance.
"Dream Bird" by Jonny Easton
Thank you for listening to Warrior Moms podcast. It is an honor to share about our beloved children gone too soon, and we hope by telling of our loss, it may help someone in their grief journey. Please note that we are not medical professionals and encourage those listening to seek help from mental health professionals.
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Website: https://www.warriormoms.me/
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With love,
Warrior Moms Amy & Michele
Well, hello and welcome back to Warrior Moms. I am Michelle Davis.
Speaker 2:And I'm Amy Durham and we are so glad to have y'all here in December. I know Another holiday is coming up.
Speaker 1:Michelle, this is the tough one of our toughest seasons, most definitely, for sure, and that's what we're here to talk about today is how do we get through, you know, the holiday season and what helps us, what doesn't, what. How are those? First?
Speaker 2:Christmases. Yeah, we have two of our friends here. We have a Brandy Cooey and we also have Ray and a Groover. We've had both of them on before, but it's really going to be fun. I use the term fun, but it'll be interesting and good to hear different. We're all at different years and stages in this grief process and in this holiday process, so it'll be good to hear.
Speaker 1:Let's start out with just say your child's name and just a little bit about when you lost them and what year you were in, in terms of what Christmas yeah, year you were in this year at Christmas.
Speaker 4:You want to start, Rayanne?
Speaker 3:I can, I can. So I'm Rayanne Gruber. Thanks, ladies, for having me back on. I do love to talk with you guys. It always puts a smile on my face and my son is Max, and he passed away in September of 2017. And so this is actually like it's crazy, but it's very hard to believe that this will be our eighth holiday season, so our eighth Christmas without him being here, which just seems so unreal.
Speaker 3:Yeah, to be honest, like I mean we've had eight. I mean eight seems like such a big number in a lot of ways you know it is. I know, yeah, it's. It's really kind of bizarre to me.
Speaker 1:It is and I know I don't know I'm right at nine um rayanne. I'm carter's mom, michelle, and it's. Yeah, I mean I say that number, I hear you saying that number and I immediately am choked up because it's yeah, it takes my breath away. I'm like yeah, literally yeah, um, so, amy, you're the the next youngest I.
Speaker 2:Alec passed away in May of 2019.
Speaker 4:So this will be Christmas number six without him, and then, Brandy she's our baby, I am the baby, so, cole, his accident was in January of 2021. And so this will be our. We've got three Christmases without him. I lost track of one at some point along the way because I've been trying to think of what we did all those ones, but it actually is kind of a prequel of what I go through in January, because, you know, for a lot of people't I don't mean this in an ugly way, but you get a little break in between, a little breather, but I'm from Thanksgiving to Christmas to January with the wreck and then you know, then you have birthday. It's just like back to back to back, so like or is during the summer. But you know, the hardest part to me by far is just like you said. You start thinking wow, like where did the time go and and how about even? How was I even able to celebrate christmas without them?
Speaker 3:do you agree with you, brand Brandy, about that season, max dying in September? I feel like September starts and it's like you have September and then you go immediately into October, which we always loved. Halloween and my daughter's birthday is in October, and then it's Thanksgiving, my birthday and Christmas, and then the New Year and then Max's birthday and it's like wow, every Christmas and then the new year and then Max's birthday and it's like it's like this whole. It's like wow, you just every month is something I just got chills, like every month is like something that's just reminding you that they're not there. When can I get that breather?
Speaker 1:Right and the wounds are always there, but it just gets reopened on. You know, in these particular times let's, let's go back as as much as we can honestly remember of that. The first Christmas without, I can't believe we have all boys too. That's so interesting, all of us. But tell me about Rianne, about that first.
Speaker 3:Christmas. Again, I always say I mean, I remember, but I don't remember. I know what we did. I had to think about it, though, and I remember what we landed up doing is. I knew I wanted to leave, like get out of town, and we always love Seacrest beach, so we had a house. We would always rent it spring break or over the summer, and I contacted the um, the owner, and, you know, told her what was going on, and she was so sweet, they were so incredible about the whole thing, and we ended up going there for basically the two weeks, that whole break.
Speaker 3:My family came for part of it, and one thing my friend did that lives there I still have it's that tree I put up, but she had sent out I get, I'm going to get chills, I'm gonna start crying. She sent out like messages to like friends across Facebook, and everyone I practically like knew I don't know how she did it my friend Janet, she had them all ship with her ornaments, bye, and then, the first day we were thereet brought a christmas tree to the house, and she had decorated the whole house outside and inside with you know stuff, and, and then we she had this huge basket she brought in that had all these ornaments from people I know from all over the place, from college, high school, you know, beyond, and then and we unwrapped, you know, undid them and put them on the tree and it was really, really nice. Now the rest of the two weeks I don't really remember. I know we were there, I know you know some friends came the second half and you know we did what we did but it was, it was hard but it. You know I'm glad we did it the way we did. It turned out to be the best escape and every year I still put up that tree with just Max's ornaments on it and from what everybody sent us.
Speaker 2:So it's a nice thing I'm going to ask were you angry, putting ornaments on the tree Like new ornaments on a new tree?
Speaker 3:No, because it wasn't our house. I think I wasn't. You know, janet surprised me with all that, with the house outside and the inside of the house being decorated. She borrowed stuff from people and people in her town came and brought stuff for her to use. So it was just such a kind gesture, you know. And then, and then to the notes that came with everything which I still have, with all the ornaments. But it was just, it was just to me so kind how much people cared um all lengths of our life, and so it was heartwarming.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's very heartwarming, very rewarding in a sense of the love.
Speaker 3:The next year doing our Christmas tree at home was incredibly difficult like that. Yeah, I, I wanted to do it for the other two kids, but it was really hard. It was not, it was just hard. It was hard seeing every, all of our stuff from all those years. That was harder. Yeah for sure.
Speaker 2:The reason I asked? Because I was angry putting up the christmas tree, even for a couple of years into it.
Speaker 3:I was just sure, and that I get, but having it, I think, at the beach was just different, because I I'd never seen these and we were so submerged in max at that time. I mean, 99 of my time is consumed by him now, but at that time it was like a hundred. You know what I mean. It was like he were being everyone was beyond. You know him being on everyone's brain, so it was just nice. But yes, I think it's definitely got it. Every year is different, I think also Christmas stuff.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely Brandy. What, what, how was that first Christmas? I know you said you had to really think about, like all of us. It's like it's such. Those first two, three years are such a fog and you're still in it.
Speaker 4:Well, I actually have been sitting here in my teacher way jotting stuff down because, like it's just, it's a foggy time, but I just could not bring myself to put up a tree, and my husband is very old fashioned about putting up a tree. We've always had a real, alive tree. My friend, pam, that y'all know, her family owns a family, ran Christmas tree farm and we would get our Christmas tree there and so we wouldn't really put ours up until probably two weeks before Christmas. And also both of my kids play basketball. We were never at home during Christmas but you know, you know it was just one of our most favorite times. So I just couldn't do it.
Speaker 4:So I came home one day from work and some of my friends my husband actually got an artificial tree I think he got it from his mom's or somewhere and we actually they had decorated it in Georgia ornaments, the whole thing in red and black, and it was just generic Georgia, pretty lights and ornaments and garland. And then they did my mantle for me and had me a big old glass of wine ready when I walked in and I just cried and cried because it was just one of those things that I knew had to happen for Annie, my little Annie Well, she's not a little Annie anymore, but she was. I knew I had to get that tree up for her, but I just physically could not do it. And they did it for me. They took over for me and made it happen. And after it was there it was just kind of like a I could breathe a little bit because it was a little bit of normal, but not normal in the house because it just looked empty and angry and everything else, but, yes, depressing.
Speaker 4:So I already said I am not staying in Rome, I'm not doing it, I cannot do Rome Christmas. So we packed up and went to Port St Joe, to a house that had a heated pool and all the fun stuff we took. My sister-in-law and her husband went and my niece, carrie, and Carrie and Annie are very close and my husband and I and we just I mean, we did little gifts every night, girls and then we came home on Christmas day and just kind of exchanged gifts there, but I still, to this day, have not gotten our ornaments out of the attic, like I can't. I'm not there yet and I will be. I feel myself I can do a little bit more every year, like this year. I was looking at my mantle and I was like, do I still like this? I don't know, but my husband made me leave it because he's superstitious, and that year was the first year Georgia won the national championship.
Speaker 2:But anyway, it First year Georgia won the national championship.
Speaker 4:But anyway, it's amazing that you're ever going to be able to get this stuff out, because that I think we're stuck with the Georgia tree unless I put up another one. But we're not those people either that put up like 20 trees. We put up one tree and but anyway, but we one of the things that we do, kind of like Raeann said, is we got one of those trees from it's actually a miniature version of a live tree and put it at the cemetery and we told people to bring ornaments that reminded them of Cole and it is my most favorite thing. And it's not fancy.
Speaker 4:It's funny, like in the ornaments that people bring is like I. One year they went on a basketball trip somewhere and ate at Cracker Barrel and for some reason Cole decided it was going to be fun to drink like a whole thing of syrup, syrup, like they do on Elf, you know.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I could see Max and our boys probably doing that too.
Speaker 2:Yes, you got spaghetti as we speak right now.
Speaker 4:So I have one of those Cracker Barrel syrup bottles and there's Sour Patch Kid ornaments there's, I mean, there's everything on there and it's things that reminded them, yeah, oh, and I love things that reminded them yeah, oh, and I love going every year, and every year they bring different ones and put them on there, and we have solar lights, yeah.
Speaker 1:I love that idea so much.
Speaker 4:It's something we do and it's so much fun. And you know, I mean there's all kinds of things on there and I did not know that they had all these different kinds of ornaments. I think there's a boot I don't know what bootlegger is, but I think there's a boot. It's a college black market ornament on there somewhere. But like there's different things that reminded them of coal, like one of our friends took coal on his first hunting trip. So it's like there's antlers, like little an antler ornament, and it's just. It just means a lot to me. When I go up there, and sometimes they leave a note, sometimes they don't a lot of people write in magic marker on it and, and so that's a matter of fact, the tree got put up today and we're going to go tomorrow and put the start, the ornaments on it and then let people come in. But now what?
Speaker 2:do you do at the end of this season, you know, when Christmas is over? Do you box them up and that you just keep them there, or do you revisit those every year?
Speaker 4:or box them up, and then I just put those back on the tree and then we just add more. The tree just keeps getting bigger and bigger. So you know we're going to have a full-size tree.
Speaker 1:Well, and Randi and Brandi, you guys both said there were things that you couldn't do, whether it was that first year or second year, and whether you got away or, you know, you were back home that second year, how did you give yourself space?
Speaker 3:in that like sadness, um, what did you all do? I don't know, gosh, that's. That's a good question, michelle Cause. I mean honestly, I don't even know if I'm answering this right, but I think it's like obviously, keeping busy. I don't know what that keeping, but I mean I probably in the last few years haven't I mean, I'm not a baker, but I think I'm star baker now A lot of those kind of like we talk about in the book.
Speaker 3:A lot of habits or things I like to do now are things that I've started post-max, that are like it's to keep me occupied in some sort of way. So I would say too, in the last several years I have started like making different Christmas cookies and baking with Lily and doing different things, like, I think, just keeping busy. And I do think most, most holidays we don't stay, I think most holidays, I think now we're kind of every other but like this year we're not going to be here and I'm perfectly happy with that. Like we're going skiing. The kids are excited, we're excited to go do that. It's somewhere we'd go ski.
Speaker 3:We went skiing with Max all our years, and so I think that I look forward to last year we were home. If there is something that pulls you, that makes you want to do something each year, and you know it. You know whether or not you want to be here or not, or whether you really want to decorate or you don't want to decorate, or you know. And I did change up all of our like, how, like, how I do the tree is different than how I used to do the tree Like it's, it's just yeah, I love hearing that you give yourself permission to to.
Speaker 1:I think I don't know about y'all, but when we've talked with different moms, especially in those early years, I think we often feel so much guilt of if we don't do it this certain way, or just different expectations from other family members too. And I love hearing that you know, you give yourself space, like I'm not going to be in Rome this year or you know, okay, we did did it this year, but let's, let's go somewhere else.
Speaker 3:I love that, the kids being older now too, like a big thing, I think. Now, too, I mean that they are older. It's like let's do a trip, like let's like. You know, two years ago we went on a cruise together which we had a fantastic time. You know what I mean. Like yeah. And to me, now that they're older too, I feel like you know. I mean, yeah, I can get you a bunch of gifts, but us going on a vacation together at this time of year, you know, aren't we all getting more out of that? You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Like, yeah, yeah well, that's just, that's what we all crave with our kids. Is that time right, what gifts they got or we gave we just, I mean, that's that's what we look back on. Yeah, right, absolutely yeah, for sure you nailed it.
Speaker 2:I mean I'm about to cry because that's it yeah.
Speaker 3:You just want to be alone.
Speaker 2:The biggest gift that I could get right now is just time with my kids. Well, and that's what?
Speaker 3:they don't get either. It's like when I'm like, yeah, we're going to go, we're going to skip, which they're excited about, but it's like for me it's so great because it's one week of the four of us, right, and we'll see some other family a little bit. You know it's, but it's, it's time we can spend together.
Speaker 2:You can't get that back, you can't. You know her parents and I make fun of her because, but it's not really. But she said you know, it's like what? What are you most happy about? And my papa would say that all my kids are here together all my kids are here under one roof all my kids.
Speaker 2:You know, one roof when you have all your kids and that's something that we'll never have is all of our kids. But when we can have all of our kids, we treasure that now even more so than ever. That intentional Raeann, if you pull them away and you take them and you keep them in a cocoon.
Speaker 3:No one else is going to ignore me. They, they're gonna go to the basement and hang out with each other and just be like oh my god, mom's driving me crazy time with her like two bedroom condo with skis.
Speaker 2:Then y'all you are, you're forced to be together yeah, you know what?
Speaker 3:we get a two double beds in one room, because they love that, because they want to carry it. So, yeah, yeah, no, no, no.
Speaker 1:Are there things that you can think of Like. So you know we've talked about tree and ornaments at home but out in the world that you had to avoid, like, for example, I mean, I for sure, like any Christmas music that came on the first couple of years, it was immediately I had to change because it would just I'd fall to absolute pieces and I had to avoid that. Even going to church was so hard I needed it, but just the beauty and the memories I had to do church, like in the little baby crying room because I was the baby crying, you know. But like when you think about those, you know what were some of the things that you maybe avoided that now you're kind of starting to do again.
Speaker 4:For me just going, just shopping, like I mean the just that I don't know. It was like I was the overwhelming amount of people and who am I going to run into?
Speaker 1:And now especially in your community, huh, yes.
Speaker 4:Yes, and you know just the, I don't know, just the people touching I don't know. You know what I mean, it's a lot. And this I was. I would get overstimulated and I would just have to be like, oh no, I would literally leave buggies places and I was like, oh my God, I got to go shop because I've got to have tape or whatever. So luckily, Amazon has my best friend. Now, Girl, I'm an online shopper Instacarter.
Speaker 3:I couldn't stand stores. After Max, I still really don't love going into a store and running into anyone. Yeah.
Speaker 4:A little bit better. Luckily she doesn't like to shop, so I get off the hook with her. I don't know, we, just we. You know we do the Black Friday shopping stuff and all that and I love that. That was so much fun. But now it's just, it's just not the same. And I, what's funny? I have a great story for that. Our, my friend Pam, and I would always go, but our rule was you had to be 16 and you had to wear panties because we had boys to go with us. So we would make that rule up and then so one time Cole decided oh, I'm going, so I'll wear panties if you're going to make me wear panties.
Speaker 3:Oh hilarious.
Speaker 4:But you know, like that we just had those kind of memories and it's so much. But he definitely was going to go with us, but I just, I don't know. It's just, it's not the same. But I am slowly getting to do things that that I hadn't done before. But, like you were talking about, you have to find your own thing, and the only way I get through it every single year is Annie.
Speaker 4:Everything I do, I'm like well, I'm not ruining Christmas for her, we're eating this, we're drinking hot chocolate and we're watching Elf. I mean, I am not gonna. I've got to do those things. And then I find myself enjoying it too. So it just kind of pushes me into another realm that I didn't think I could go to. And then I go a little further and a little further. And, like you said, the ache is still there. We'll both, and I'll see everybody in the room Brad, annie, we'll all kind of wander off for a minute, but then we come back to the moment with us there, and we all treasure that so much more than before Because, like you said, that's all we have is time, and we don't know how much time.
Speaker 1:What about you, Raeann? I know you said shopping too, but are there other things that?
Speaker 3:You know something that I would say that you said shopping too. But are there other things that you know? Something that I would say that I noticed this year, and it's not kind of exactly what you asked, but I get real like you'll get, like I'll, you know, be driving in the car, you know, and it gets like this dark and then the lights start coming on and I get real like sad like where I used to love to take the kids to drive around and see all the Christmas lights on it, and I love them.
Speaker 3:I do love them, but but this year I noticed it's made me very like, like, and I keep thinking of Max, like, like and when, and the other two kids too, but like when they were little and like you know just how much they loved them and it just it's just one of those things that really stuck out this year for some reason.
Speaker 3:For me was was that and I feel like every year there's something a little different that might hit you and make sure that the thing that's hitting me is, you know, not a bad thing, but you know it's it just really made me like I don't know if it's nostalgic, sad, I don't know, whatever the word is, just very god. I wish he was here, you know, and yes, I wish I felt that joy used to always feel seeing those lights and stuff, but this year I just don't see it the same way, like I don't know yeah, I have a question for y'all.
Speaker 2:So what's the? I've been known to buy alec christmas presents. Still like to this day and you know, for example, like I bought lightsabers because he was, I mean, when he was a kid, he loved star wars, you know. So have y'all ever done that?
Speaker 1:yeah, me too. Jeremy and her always did nerf guns, yeah, this morning, and so that's become, you know, like Jeremy does it with his brother, he'll get it for my nephews, like his two sisters are coming, and that's something we've talked about with all their little kids, and so we've tried to make it like like exactly what you said, thinking about things that we did with Carter but that we could all still do, and it's really it's like being silly, like what's something silly that's you know.
Speaker 2:You know is painful, but it's going to make us laugh, I'm buying for Alec, even though he's not going to get it, but still, as opposed to me looking at it on the shelf going, I would have bought that for Alec, right yeah. I get ornaments still from.
Speaker 3:Max max, though I do still buy ornaments, like you know. By the case, we need any more ornaments, right? But, right, definitely when I see something that either reminds me of him or just has well, reminds me of him in one way or another. Yeah, um, I definitely have a lot of ornaments on the tree that are still for him each year, so that's kind of, I guess, my present in that way, but yeah, what?
Speaker 1:this is kind of maybe one of our last questions, but is so when you get in, that you're driving, raeann, and you get really sad and I know, brandy, you've talked about taking walks that that's your place to get away. So when we're, whether you're, you know out where you're going to be, skiing or at the beach, or at home. What's, what is the kind of your space, what's the thing that you have to go do that helps you refuel.
Speaker 3:For me sometimes.
Speaker 3:I mean I I've actually said this recently to some folks just I have to be alone for a while, like I've gotten very used to being alone in a lot of ways since Max, and I like that time by myself, whether it's piddling in my bedroom or, you know, whatever it might be, it really it's just I can't.
Speaker 3:It's not having that interaction, so it's just quiet time, I guess you would call it in some ways and that kind of recharges me, you know. You know, like we had my mom for an entire week at Thanksgiving, which but a whole week was just I could tell by like day three or four. It's like I'm just using losing fuel, like because it's somebody in the house besides us that you know you're just interacting with and doing stuff with, and it's harder just to go off and like, right, go, let yourself refuel somewhere. I do notice that they're like that's what I need to do and like, note to self, you know, next time you have a guest that's here for a life, you need to just say I need some time because I got to just take that time alone to just refuel it.
Speaker 3:However, that is.
Speaker 1:Yeah, in fact, one of the first times I traveled to one of my girlfriend's Debbie's house in Denver, I mean, I would just tell her, like I'm going to have to nap maybe twice during the day in order for me to keep going, and so she got darkening curtains before I came because she knew okay, well, you know, that's what she's got to do. She's got to go take her nap and then get up and I'll regroup, and so forth.
Speaker 2:I want to be her friend. Can she be my friend?
Speaker 1:I know Everybody needs a Debbie. What do you do, Brandy?
Speaker 4:I'm more of. I'm a movement kind of girl. I have to be moving and you know, in the job that I'm in, and you know this, being a teacher like we're in constant demand and so I go from being demanded upon at work to being I'm always needed 24, seven so, but I like to exercise and I have to move. So movement I'll go walk by myself, sometimes I'll just go work out at my workout place. I don't know what that is. I'm sure there's some kind of endorphin situation going on, but it really resets me, it recharges me. I don't know, I don't know what it is that I'm not a workout like thing, I mean that's, I don't know how to clear your head and you're in your own thoughts for that time, without other.
Speaker 4:Yes.
Speaker 3:It's like I'll just get up and walk on my treadmill, or the same thing, and it's like you're just, it's just, it's like for you to be in your own head. I feel like Definitely.
Speaker 4:We have to be on all the time, and especially during this time of the year, I feel like I'm even more in tune with the needs of my family Because I know they're going, I don't know. I just feel like, as mothers, that's just what we do we're trying to meet their needs as well, and then sometimes ours get neglected their needs as well, and then sometimes ours get neglected, so we get grouchy or whatever and snappy because we're not taking care of ourselves, and so that's one of the big things that I do, and you know, and I learned to say no real quick. I had to say that is one thing. If I had to give anybody any advice about any holiday, it was learn to tell people I'm not doing this. I'm going to be the ice and cups and plates girl this year.
Speaker 3:Like I'm not that girl and learn to say no thanks, just that's all you have to say.
Speaker 4:No thanks, no explanation, just no thanks, yep, and that's that is huge. And it was hard for me to do because, you know, I came from a divorced family and we ran everywhere during the holidays. There was never a second during the holidays I wouldn't run in somewhere. So I've always been cued to do that, and so what I need is the opposite of what I've always done, and so I've learned to say you know what I'm not doing that or whatever so yeah, no thanks, yes, thank you.
Speaker 1:Well, you guys, thank you so much for sharing I think. Well, I know, just for me it's just helpful to hear, and other moms and how we work through this gosh. Just really beautiful time of year and really really, really sad time of year, and you all just helped remind me of giving that space to ourselves. And it's okay if you can't be at home and it's also okay to give yourself that time away from everybody else. So thank you so much for sharing. I know it's not easy, but we love it, thank you.
Speaker 3:Thanks for having us on. We love everything you guys do.
Speaker 2:It's great Thank you all for being our friends. We love so many people. That was awesome.
Speaker 3:So many moms, so it's wonderful.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I was always listening for somebody to tell me you know what to do. Somebody tell me that what I'm doing is normal. So anytime I listen to a podcast, I'm like, hey, there is somebody like me.
Speaker 3:Yeah, exactly Because it's okay that this is the way I'm thinking in my head Because there's no right answers in this. It's finding what's your right answer.
Speaker 4:Like you said, it's the most lonely time in the world, but you need somebody. You need somebody. That's where you are and you don't want that, but you need it. Does that make sense?
Speaker 2:Unfortunately, I don't know anyone in my circle that can relate. That's fortunate, but it's unfortunate, but it's fortunate. I'm glad y'all are in our circle.
Speaker 1:Thank you again, brandi and Raeann, and next podcast.