Warrior Moms: Surviving Child Loss
A club no one wants to be in because the initiation is too big of a sacrifice: the loss of a child. Unthinkable. Unimaginable. Warrior Moms is local group in north Atlanta filled with strong, courageous, funny, and fiercely loving women who are surviving and thriving amidst horrific grief.
This podcast features Amy Durham and Michele Davis, two of the Warrior Moms, who will guide listeners through their grief journey. Every fourth or fifth episode will showcase another Warrior Mom, the trauma they endured, stories about their beloved child, and tips on how they get out of bed every day.
Each and every Warrior Moms' story is different, the children and the loss is different, but one thing they share is the decision to live. They have figured out how to live life putting one foot in the past and the other moving forward. Yes, it's beyond awful. Yes, it's hard. Yes, it's worth it. And yes, they say, you can survive child loss AND thrive.
Warrior Moms: Surviving Child Loss
Navigating Grief During Thanksgiving: Ep 31
How do you navigate the ups and downs of grief during the holiday season, especially Thanksgiving, after losing a child? Join us, Amy and Michele, as we sit down with our guest, Jenny Stanley, to share personal stories and offer strategies for managing the complex emotions that accompany this time of year. Jenny invites us into her world of grappling with the question, “Why us?” during festive family gatherings, while Amy reflects on the bittersweet solace found in these moments. Together, we explore the interplay between societal expectations of gratitude and the personal sorrow felt when a loved one is absent.
Thanksgiving traditions can be both a comfort and a challenge. In our conversation, we recount how families adapt their rituals to honor those no longer with us—whether it’s setting an extra chair at the table, or finding comfort in the presence of an empty one. We also touch upon the diverse ways families choose to remember their lost loved ones, from open celebrations to quieter, unspoken acts of remembrance. This delicate balance of honoring the past while celebrating the present offers profound lessons on resilience and love.
Throughout our discussion, we underscore the power of self-compassion and the importance of evolving family dynamics. Welcoming new members and crafting new traditions to embrace both memory and change are key themes we explore. With insights from our shared experiences, we encourage listeners to offer themselves grace, cherish moments of gratitude, and create a nurturing environment during Thanksgiving. Whether you're new to this journey or have walked it for many years, find hope and comfort in the collective support of our Warrior Moms community.
"Dream Bird" by Jonny Easton
Thank you for listening to Warrior Moms podcast. It is an honor to share about our beloved children gone too soon, and we hope by telling of our loss, it may help someone in their grief journey. Please note that we are not medical professionals and encourage those listening to seek help from mental health professionals.
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With love,
Warrior Moms Amy & Michele
Hello and welcome back to Warrior Moms. I am Michelle Davis. I am Carter's mom.
Speaker 2:And I'm Amy and I am Alex's mom and we are so thankful that y'all are back with us. I know it's been a while but you know, I feel like that's the story of our lives lately. Michelle, I know I know Running and going and doing and being and not connecting, and that's my heart. I don't know how you feel, but being disconnected is kind of. It gives me a different sense of being these days.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it definitely fuels me, for sure.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 1:And I definitely crave that connection. Somebody who understands I don't have to say anything to you and we know exactly how we feel.
Speaker 2:Yep, it does bring comfort in my day to day for some reason.
Speaker 1:Yes, I love it.
Speaker 2:That refuel. They say fuel yourself, so anyway you fill my cup. I'm glad you're here to fill my cup. I am thankful. Which will bring us to our yes, our discussion today.
Speaker 1:You know we're in the season of Thanksgiving and one of the things that Amy and I were talking about is, you know all the holiday decor and you know the table runners that say be thankful and blessed, and all of that Grateful and yeah, and we feel all those things. But of course, with losing a child, the grief is deep and there's a lot of times where, you know, we question and wonder how we got here and why us, and it's hard to be thankful sometimes, and so today we just want to talk about that. How can you be intentional about finding some hope in the midst of also giving yourself that space in this season of Thanksgiving?
Speaker 2:And so we have a guest and we also give you permission to be a little bit angry and unthankful at moments, as long as you're intentional about not staying there. But, yes, who do we have today, Michelle?
Speaker 1:So we have Jenny Stanley with us. Jenny, hello, Hello, how are both of y'all? So Jenny has been on our podcast before. She is Sydney's mom and we're grateful that she is joining us today. It's just fun to add a different perspective, especially, there's a lot of different Thanksgiving sort of traditions, and so we thought it would be interesting to hear our different perspectives. So I think the first thing I wanted to talk about is just, um, just honoring really why we experience, you know this, this season of holidays, one after another, after another in the fall, starting with just back to school, right is you know what they call compounded grief? Right, it's the missing of having our child at each of these events, and so what's your thoughts about? Kind of honoring that grief? I guess, kind of honoring that grief, I guess.
Speaker 3:Well, it seems like that's when I get. I fall back into my old pattern, which is not healthy, of why Sydney gets, because I saw, you know you see the Hallmark movies and then the commercials, and the public commercials kill me every year. You know as to why. It just reiterates why Sydney? Why is everybody else feels like? Why is everybody else? Why like, why is everybody else? Why is the world so happy? But I'm not because sydney's not there, and to me, I guess the I guess more because it's all the traditions that we don't have anymore is what I'm missing and questioning why, why don't we or why can't we? So that's kind of the path that's unhealthy, but honestly, that's kind of where I go when I especially Thanksgiving and Christmas.
Speaker 1:It's just yes it's so normal and I think that was why we really wanted to start with that is that it is a hundred percent normal is to question and to wonder why us and why our child, and to really face the grief and know that this is real right, that it is not. You know, it's not something you just get over, like this year. It's going to happen every year on these special seasons. How about you, amy, and where you are in the grief in these moments like Thanksgiving?
Speaker 2:in these moments like Thanksgiving, you know, I kind of take a different approach and yes, I'm not happy about it but I do realize that it brings it more to the forefront of everybody's not going to be here forever. And I don't mean that in a sad way, I mean that in like a real way.
Speaker 3:And.
Speaker 2:I need to spend as much time with these people as I'm thankful they're all still here and I'm thankful that we have the time to spend together. So you know we drive from one state to the other trying to see all the family and eat big. And, you know, get to see all the cousins and distant cousins. And you know, get to see all the cousins and distant cousins. And you know our grandparents aren't here anymore, which you know that's sad but that's expected. You know you plan for that, like okay, well, once you know this happens, then this will happen.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Like you said with you know, since Alec has left, it's, you know, there's just always, there's always an empty chair, and that's just the best way. There is always something missing. Somebody's always missing. Um, and I do take a moment to honor that within me.
Speaker 2:Um, we don't have like a big you know moment around the table where we're like, oh, talk about you know whatever, but we do have. We still find joy in the day. We're still thankful for each other, thankful for our families and thankful that we've all been so close for so long and we have each other. So it's, yes, I'm still missing a piece, but I do find joy in the traditions. You know, a lot of people go away from it and do something completely different. Where we, I hold on to those traditions, they're comforting to me.
Speaker 1:The same food every year, that's comforting to me, yeah and that's one of the things that we wanted to talk about in those first. You know, the first year after your child is do you participate or not? And, Amy, it sounds like that was something that did bring you comfort, even though your sadness was it did bring me comfort and my family was really good at allowing me to go.
Speaker 2:I mean, there was times that I would spend in the room, you know, in my room, or the guest room or wherever we were. And I could just go in there and they allowed me the space to have my own and they didn't question or be like why aren't you out here? You know, like when I was a teenager and I would retreat to the room my mom would be like you're just trying to avoid everybody.
Speaker 2:And yes, I was trying to avoid everybody, but I'm trying to avoid everybody in a different way, but I still tried to bring myself together to not avoid. Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 3:But I could have avoided the whole time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but you were intentional about finding places to like you said, your family is so close and you're clinging to that and being thankful for the time together. How about you, jenny? Did you participate or not? What did you do after you lost Sydney?
Speaker 3:or not. What did you do after you lost Sidney? We did, and I try to keep it as normal as possible, but still, you know I'd go to my wife, you know, and why us? Or whatever. But you know, with the two boys I wanted to make sure it was as consistent and as positive and as thankful, as you know, because it's the boys I mean, they were still, you know, young, but I would have thoughts, internal thoughts. I would never I didn't vocalize them. One, you know, people around you are not going to understand it. And then you know, then you kind of go back into the same. Well, you've got two boys and you know you start to go back with that. So it's just to me, at that time it was so raw it was better to keep my mouth shut about something like that.
Speaker 2:So with little, with the little boys and stuff like that, were you able to retreat at some points and have your what I call my pity party at some points in the day. Not really.
Speaker 3:Or did you have to suck it up and keep going? Okay, I had to suck it up and keep going because it was at our house and you know the grandmothers and the aunts and uncles, you know they were at our home, so I didn't feel like you were the host. I don't know if that helped or hurt, though, really.
Speaker 1:Yes, yeah, well, and sometimes just keeping busy and having you know, that plan of oh, I've got to cook and I'm hosting. And you know that phrase fake it till you make it. Sometimes is, you know, can be a positive coping mechanism for sure.
Speaker 2:You said earlier, Jenny, that y'all change it up now. So how long did you continue to host Thanksgiving before y'all made changes?
Speaker 3:I guess it was about maybe three or four years into it after her death that we did this, and the reason we did was my sister-in-law and her current or her husband, um, were fairly somewhat recent, recently married and they built a home, so they decided that they wanted to have this at their home, because neither of them had had that opportunity to host thanksgiving and um were you like yeah, or did you?
Speaker 2:have a hard time letting it go. No, I had a hard time with that. I'm like.
Speaker 3:Uh, it's kind of like. I don't really remember agreeing to that, but I guess so.
Speaker 2:Maybe I was yeah.
Speaker 3:Onward and onward and you know. And then it was kind of like, okay, the things we do now that are traditions, you know, don't have the what you know. It was kind of like, okay, the things we do now that are traditions, you know, don't have the what it, you know. It was good to make a change, but I still think about how much she would have enjoyed the new things we do, like we fry turkeys and then, you know, the night before on Wednesday, it's like the adult night. Well, it's adult night and our younger kids, the younger kids, you know, the grandparents and all that aren't around and we kind of we have a little party and but it's, it's fun. But I just think about how she would be running around and I still think of her as a six year old In my mind. She's still, you know, she's still six.
Speaker 1:Yeah, one of the things my dad did the first Thanksgiving was just quietly he went into the room and my mom of course had a table set up and it was beautiful and he just got an extra chair and he set an extra place and then he put a little card, of course with Carter's name on it, and I mean we all cried our little hearts out when we first saw it.
Speaker 1:But now that's something we do every year is hold that. Hold a spot at the table, even if we're apart and we're all having, you know, five or six different Thanksgivings across the country. Five or six different Thanksgivings across the country. Each of us, my sisters, my mom and dad we just hold a spot at the table for Carter. That's awesome.
Speaker 3:I like that idea.
Speaker 2:You know what's funny I think it was the second Thanksgiving that Alec was gone. It just so happened we were out on the deck and everybody was sitting or whatever like that, and the chair next to me just happened to be empty. Oh, like it was, you know, because there's different places and in my mind I was like that's Alec. I don't know if anybody else like thought that at that moment, but I was. I was like, oh, there's Alec, and I'd be like are you eating the ham? You're eating the ham because you don't like the turkey, don't you? You love the ham, you know.
Speaker 3:Yeah, you got to try the turkey. Come on, try the turkey.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but it made me. It gave me joy, which is so weird as opposed to sadness. No, I mean it's, but then the next day it could have made me cry you know, right, right, well, and that was you know seeing, of course, that course, that chair.
Speaker 1:I mean, we all cried, but yet it was the sweetness. You know that my dad did that and wanted me and Jeremy and Greta to know that. You know he's not physically here, but you know um how did y'all do the first year?
Speaker 2:because it was. How was the first year?
Speaker 1:Yeah, the first year, gosh, we had a funeral in Georgia and then we had a funeral in South Dakota, so we had been home late September and so we didn't, you know, turn around and come back.
Speaker 1:So we were by ourselves for that first Thanksgiving, or we were going to be by ourselves, and my sister Melanie was like that's just not going to work and so she flew out. But I mean, the exhaustion was so immense and we had just moved a month prior to that and, bless little Greta's heart, she was eight years old, and I had put on the counter, you know, like the green beans and the cream of mushroom, and I had set out the recipes and, you know, for the next day and the, you know the pie, and just all the things I had put on the counter, and I, you know, slept in really late and get up, and she had gone in and had make the green bean casserole and pumpkin pie and she figured out how to, you know, make mashed potatoes and I was just absolutely amazed and it was, ah, I cried about that too, but it was also just such joy and a good reminder about, like you said, jenny, about, you know, just keep going. You know that you have the boys, we have Greta. You know, amy, like it's a good reminder, like we are here and we need to be intentional about finding that joy and celebrating together, even if it is also sad.
Speaker 3:I think my family took more of the approach that some people take, you know, about not mentioning it. You know she was in the prayer. It was said, you know, and for those who aren't with us, but that was kind of the end of it, it was not, there wasn't a chair, there wasn't any recognition of her and that she wasn't there to help. You know, kind of still participate. I know this sounds crazy, but to still kind of halfway participate in Thanksgiving, so at that point and still kind of it's, you know, don't say her name or yeah, that standpoint is what really happened in our family Ours too, I mean, it's still to this day, is kind of like that.
Speaker 2:I mean, we're very Southern, you know, you just don't.
Speaker 3:Talk about that.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean, I think that's true all over. It's just, my dad is. I mean, he's just, he's just I don't know. He's a beautiful man and he's just going to push forward in a way that I think we probably would have been the same like y'all and not said something. You know, we maybe would have mentioned Carter in the prayer, but you know, he just led that day Like well, we are going to celebrate both being there and not. You know Well, and this is great.
Speaker 2:You know I go off topic all the time because you know that's.
Speaker 3:That's what you do.
Speaker 2:That's it, but it's kind of so putting it out there. Jenny, I'm just gonna ask you did that make you sad or was it like? This is just the way it is?
Speaker 3:it was a little bit of both and it was kind of like well, crap, I guess we're just not going to talk about her. You know it's like she's it was. You know it was sad, it was really sad, but then on the other hand, I could fight back the tears, so it was a little bit of both. Um, I would much rather have talked about her.
Speaker 2:You know, when I suck up the tears then, yeah, kind of like you know, and I'm kind of like yeah, like for me it's like that first year or two like I was fine, but then it was like afterwards, like a few years afterwards, I'm like why don't we do any? You know, like once you kind of come out of that fog of we need to acknowledge this, you know I mean, granted, we have, but I don't want to make it the center of attention either. But you know, so I do just bring up his name during the. You know we'll talk about do you remember that year, that? Or you know whatever. So that's kind of how we are comfortable in doing that, right, yeah, and I think that's you know kind of our.
Speaker 1:Our last topic is really kind of, you know, these tips, for how can we have self-compassion? And I think that's part of it. You know we've heard just the three of us who had three different ways of handling. You know, thanksgiving in those first couple years and even still today, and there's no rules. You know we're entering year nine of not having Carter at Thanksgiving, which is just astounding. To say out loud Chokes me up, and we might have a new tradition. You know, like it's okay, I think, have a new tradition, it's okay, I think, to lean in and add things to our traditions just like we do when our kid was here.
Speaker 2:I do think we get stuck in a rut. Speaking from us, you get stuck in a rut of the what I don't know. You want to keep things the same, but yet, because you don't want to forget how that was.
Speaker 2:I know yeah and so it's like you, you stay true to that. But I mean, I even talk about that like when my grandparents were alive, like our family tried so hard to keep with doing everything the way we did when they were alive, but at the same time we can't do it because we're all growing so much yeah, growing families and doing all that. We can't all coordinate. But that's where the dagger hurts is. If we had changed, then I won't be able to remember him being here, because we moved it here and I never had the memory of him there, like that's something.
Speaker 2:I think that deviating from the tradition hurts my heart more than relieves it.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like you were saying, some people go do completely different things and that makes them feel better.
Speaker 3:Where yeah absolutely, I wish I'd been more vocal. I wish I'd been more um. I love the idea of the chair I didn't think about it until you've said it but I wish I'd been more um, vocal or more included her in conversations and what silly things she may have done, or what she may have done at that time, or something, as opposed to falling into the trap of, you know, like avoidance of me trying to make everybody comfortable, yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean, let's be honest, that's what it is, jenny, it is.
Speaker 3:I was trying to make everybody comfortable and not bring up a sad subject.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think the reality is that that's part of who we are. And I just if that's something that's on your heart and even if you know maybe it's uncomfortable with the bigger group, but that you do it in a small way with your own, you know little family. With your own, you know little family. And I'll tell you, yeah, it's sad but it's amazing, the different perspectives that people remember of our child or things you know, and you're like, oh my gosh, I'm, you know, and so of course it's painful and sad, but then it's so sweet, you know, you just get something just precious out of it. So if I would encourage any way to push through and say, hey, I know we haven't set her name at Thanksgiving, but this year I want to. I want to, you know, have a chair or have a candle on the table, that's just for her.
Speaker 2:Well, and that's my question is do you think it's too late, ever Like if you didn't start it in the first five years, can you start it again, or can you start something like that?
Speaker 3:I feel weird about it, frankly, just because it's just like oh okay, I'm throwing this wrench into everything you know, but that's a horrible way to say it, but it's you know, I'm kind of disrupting things. Again, I would feel like if I made it so obvious, I guess, as opposed to that, but I think I will talk more about it, though, for sure, yeah, I think whatever you know, whatever feels comfortable, you have to find that.
Speaker 1:But gosh, I would hope that it's never too late. You know that, yeah.
Speaker 2:But I'm with you, jenny, I would feel weird. You know, here we are going into this, we're into the sixth year of Alec and I don't think that I could just put a plate you know a table, a chair out, that just, for example. I couldn't just put a chair out and be like, hey, yeah, I would feel awkward about that.
Speaker 1:But it makes perfect sense to say you know y'all, I have been in just a fog and now I'm at this other place and I want to be intentional with honoring that Alec isn't here. I mean, that's perfectly fine, you're. You know? I think don't put you know these parameters on yourself. You're sitting at a table with people who absolutely love each of you. Yes, and loved Alec and loved Sydney.
Speaker 2:And if they hadn't met him? Like I know, jenny, you just, both your boys, or just one of them, got engaged.
Speaker 3:Yeah, just one, Logan Just one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he just got engaged and we can talk about it. Now we can talk about it now.
Speaker 3:It's not a secret. We can talk about it now. It's not a secret. We can talk about it now. We can talk about it now. It's not a secret. We can talk about it now. It's not a secret.
Speaker 1:No, it's not.
Speaker 2:Well, that's good, you won't allow this one to air until it's like this no, it's all good.
Speaker 3:And she said yes.
Speaker 1:So she said yes, which is great. You know like we bring new people into, you know our family traditions and I just hope, and would pray for each of you, that you find a way that feels good to. I just gosh for the rest of my life. I would encourage any new griever or old griever there is. It is never too late because, I mean, we all go through these different stages and all of a sudden you have a, you have a better capacity to to face and do things that you know we just weren't strong enough to do the year prior. Yeah, so give ourselves grace, I guess, is our message.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yes, However, whatever form that is right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and if you decide not to do it, then you know, maybe it's a quiet space and you, you know journal a little letter, or you, at night, before bed, you say a prayer, or you just talk directly to your child. I mean, there's lots of ways to honor them without you know changing any of the current traditions too. And who you are, you got to be true to you know changing any of the current traditions to and who you are.
Speaker 2:You got to be true to who you are, so Exactly yes. Well, so glad you got back on here with us.
Speaker 3:I know this, I like talking, you know, because it's one. I like talking just in general. But two, you know, it's like you guys said at the very beginning, we don't have to explain it to each other, it's just we had a bad day and both of you would know exactly what I was talking about, without any questions. So it's comforting, like you said it's very comforting.
Speaker 1:Yes, for sure it is absolutely, and thanks for sharing y'all as it is Absolutely, and thanks for sharing y'all. We know that as women, we want to offer comfort and this coziness to our families in this season of Thanksgiving and I just want to encourage y'all and our listeners just that it's okay to just be thankful where you are in that moment and it's okay just to take it exactly where you are. Like Amy says, feel the feels and give yourself grace and lean in when you can and, you know, take it one day at a time.
Speaker 3:Well, happy Thanksgiving everybody.