Warrior Moms: Surviving Child Loss
This podcast features Amy Durham and Michele Davis, two of the Warrior Moms, who will guide listeners through their grief journey. Every fourth or fifth episode will showcase another Warrior Mom, the trauma they endured, stories about their beloved child, and tips on how they get out of bed every day.
Each and every Warrior Moms' story is different, the children and the loss is different, but one thing they share is the decision to live. They have figured out how to live life putting one foot in the past and the other moving forward. Yes, it's beyond awful. Yes, it's hard. Yes, it's worth it. And yes, they say, you can survive child loss AND thrive.
Warrior Moms: Surviving Child Loss
Vacation and Grief: Ep 27
Planning a summer vacation should be joyful, right? But what happens when the simple thought of packing your bags brings on a wave of anxiety and sadness? Join us as we unravel our own emotional journeys through vacation planning. Amy and I candidly share the frustration, excitement, and sometimes overwhelming grief that accompany these family trips. From the struggle to sync schedules for our podcast to the bittersweet moments of joy upon arriving at our destinations, we don’t hold back on the complex feelings that vacations can entail, especially when dealing with loss.
In this heartfelt episode, we discuss practical strategies to manage vacation-related stress and embrace family time, even when it's tough. By opening up about our personal experiences, we emphasize the importance of being present and having open conversations with our children about their expectations and feelings.
"Dream Bird" by Jonny Easton
Thank you for listening to Warrior Moms podcast. It is an honor to share about our beloved children gone too soon, and we hope by telling of our loss, it may help someone in their grief journey. Please note that we are not medical professionals and encourage those listening to seek help from mental health professionals.
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Website: https://www.warriormoms.me/
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With love,
Warrior Moms Amy & Michele
Well, hello and welcome back to Warrior Moms. I am Michelle.
Speaker 2:And I'm Amy, and happy summer. Yes, it's been a busy one already.
Speaker 1:Oh, my goodness, yeah, and it's been a minute since we've been on the podcast.
Speaker 2:Yes, we're so sorry. We've been living life. I know it Just living life, vacation after vacation.
Speaker 1:And just the two of our time schedule hasn't matched up no, it doesn't match up.
Speaker 2:It's you know. It's like, yeah, trying to get women and mothers in the same room at the same time, in the same time.
Speaker 1:So we're gonna be a little bit sporadic with our podcasts for a bit, yes, and then, once august and september hit, we'll be a little, we'll be back.
Speaker 2:Back to normal, back in full swing, back to right now. Just be with us. Be patient with us is the word I'm saying, but we'll be in when we can. It just won't be regular.
Speaker 1:And we wanted to talk about, since it is summer about vacations and just how it affects us.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and just how it affects us. Yeah, I mean, it is joy and grief coexisting, always At the peak of existence, right now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. And you know vacations, of course, are so, you know, joyful and you're excited about it all but not having someone that should be there.
Speaker 2:There's somebody always missing, there's something. Always there's. A suitcase always missing, there's yeah, everything's always missing. And I know that for me, getting ready for the vacations are awful. I hate the days leading up to it. I don't get excited, I get more angry than anything. And is it angry because I think so? Yes, I mean, over the years it's definitely. I've realized it and I've triggered it and I don't like vacations. And we start planning vacations because we have my side of the family we do something with, we have Jeff's side of the family we do something with, and then you know we'll have other trips, you know just little things here and there, for whatever reason, and every time I'm just mad and I don't like, I don't like planning them, I don't like talking about it and I don't like packing for it and I just don't like going at all. So how do you push through that?
Speaker 1:I just do it, I just do it.
Speaker 2:I just focus, and my family knows that well, jeff does and Layla does. I don't share it with the rest of the family because I don't want them to think that I don't want to be there, because I do want to be there, yeah, and once you're there, how is it? Once I'm there, I'm fine. Yeah, once I'm there, I'm fine. Um, there are times that I might not be, but for the most part I'm, I'm good and I'm enjoying the moments and taking the time and all that because you know you don't want to miss those moments with those that are there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it does. I mean, like we constantly say, you have to be intentional about it because you can get lost in that sadness of who's not there.
Speaker 2:If I was going to give in to my grief, I wouldn't go anywhere.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh, gosh, yeah, and it's so much you know, especially when you're in that sadness and that conflict of oh, it's so much fun and then gosh, I'm so sad. It's so exhausting physically, you know. So you come back and I don't know about you, but I mean I could sleep for two, three days after a vacation, more so, of course, than-.
Speaker 2:How are you getting ready for how are you when it comes to? Oh, we're, we're gonna go to the bahamas. Yeah, what would you do? Like what? Where would you be right now if I said we're going, let's plan a?
Speaker 1:trip to the bahamas. Yeah, I get super excited. I love researching and planning different ideas and stuff, um, but what I've noticed is like the day of travel, you know it starts the day and I've just the last two trips I've noticed is pretty high anxiety, and I don't get that very often Short fused. I'm panicked because I, you know, I need my Carter bracelet on and I want the necklace with his ashes on in it.
Speaker 1:And you know, this last trip I couldn't find my bracelet, the Carter bracelet, and I mean it was just a full panic and I tore the house up basically and you know, jeremy's kind of looking at me like oh my gosh, she's lost it. And we were driving to the airport and I was driving and I took a wrong turn and I got, you know, goofed up with where we were supposed to park and I had a full panic attack, you know, and Jeremy's like I have seen you. I mean he didn't say anything right then, but once we were at our gate, once we were at our gate, he's like are you okay now?
Speaker 1:And he's like I've seen you amped up that was something yeah, and that is something that I've noticed is definitely new as part of this grief kind of journey and and the coexistence of you know, because it is. I think I'm personally excited, but my body must know you're, you're still really sad, and so it was like, once Jeremy said that, it was kind of like facing it of yeah, I am sad.
Speaker 2:I'm not hiding it anymore.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I didn't hide it well, yeah, yeah, but then I'm like you once I get there.
Speaker 2:I'm okay. Yeah, I'm pretty much okay. But yeah, well, we we are going out of the country and we had to get for a vacation this summer. It's my husband's 50th birthday and so he wanted to do something big. So we're going out of the country and we had to get our passports renewed, or Layla's passport renewed and so, but we both had to be there and it was, and our son, chase, had to get his renewed, and Jeff was.
Speaker 2:He kept telling me to do, like call in and make an appointment. And I'm like we don't have to make an appointment with this. And I remember being on the phone with him and yelling at him at the top of my lungs we don't need an appointment. I've told you time and time again and I mean, yeah, and we don't yell Out of control. Yeah, I was out of control, this was not me. Like we don't yell, we don't cuss at each other, like it's pretty much, he laid down the law at the beginning of our marriage. Like we don't do that, like we're not yelling. We're not. We might have issues, but we're going to talk about it. Like he has walked. If I would yell at him, he's going to walk out of the room and because I was, I was raised in a yelling family, not mean, but just, yeah, we raise our voice and you listen, you know, but um, but anyways, like yeah, that was a shock. So that was a shock and I like hung up on him and I mean I was so mad.
Speaker 1:Yeah, just enraged.
Speaker 2:Enraged. Yeah, that's the best thing. And I sat back and I thought about it and why was I so mad? Kind of like you were like what is this? And going back we had the last time we got our passports we had just gotten alex passport, like alex, we all as a whole family got our passports done and included alex and when the time that he was the amount of time he was missing, his passport came in the mail during that time.
Speaker 2:And then, not only so then we had another big trip out of the country planned. This was five years ago when he was supposed to go with you and he was supposed to go with us, and it was literally five weeks after the funeral that we went. Oh my gosh. You know we went on our vacation but we had to cancel his plane ticket. We had to cancel all this stuff, oh my gosh. And of course we're going in to you know, he was literally supposed to be there.
Speaker 1:Wow, so that passport. I mean that was a major trigger.
Speaker 2:It was so major and I didn't realize there Wow, so that passport, I mean, that was a major trigger. It was so major and I didn't realize it. Yeah, and then, but I wasn't doing it because I didn't want to get it. Yeah, I didn't want to do it, and not that I didn't want to go, I just it just takes you back to terrible places? Yes, and that was where you know. So then I went and apologized to Jeff and I shared that with them and I was just like it, just yeah, well, that's forgive me, I'm so sorry.
Speaker 2:Yes, I'm so sorry. I yelled at you, but this is, and thank God, he's a good man, and yeah, and then you could talk through it yes. And then I broke down crying, you know, and it was just, it was yeah, yeah, a lot.
Speaker 1:Thank God that we communicate well enough mm-hmm yeah that it didn't just leave at this height of angry. And then he matches you.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, you know we could, we could have done yeah, that would have been really bad, that would have been really bad, that would have been really bad. Yeah, so, but we have our passports and we have, you know, but, and so it's. But there again, yeah, you were coming up and I'm, you know, I don't, I hope none of my family listens to it.
Speaker 2:It's going with us, but it's. I mean, no, I'm not looking forward to it and I say I feel like I'm selfish and spoiled, and spoiled or whatever you want to call it I don't know the right word but ungrateful or whatever. But no, I don't want to go, but I'm going and I'm going to have a good time.
Speaker 1:And you know when you get there that you will Like you do when you get somewhere and you're okay.
Speaker 2:Oh, and I remember the night before that trip too. I mean, granted, it was so raw and so new, but I was ugly crying. We all know those cries. We got to the airport the next morning and my sister-in-law looked at me and she said are you okay? And I said no, there's no part of this, no.
Speaker 1:Are you an idiot?
Speaker 2:and of course she knew the answer, she knew it, but she, just you know it didn't bless her heart. She, she didn't know what to say, but she did want me to say, yes, but I couldn't. Yeah, and she knew it, she wasn't. None of us were okay at that moment, no, but nor could you, nor could we be. But we went, we made the best time of it, and and, and that's.
Speaker 1:I mean I'm gonna do that this time too. Yeah, you know, it's just well, and I, um, you know, on this last trip that we took, I I'm, consciously and unconsciously but looking for signs of Carter. You know these little serendipitous connections or you know, maybe they are, you know, god winks, but yeah, we're. I mean, like we kept passing this sign on the interstate when we were driving up to the lake of this, like manufactured homes, and it was called Carter, just Carter, that's the name of their business. It was on all these billboards and then we saw a Carter's trucking company and then, of course, all of our hawks, we saw tons. But I mean just, yeah, so that it's kind of comforting. You know, you're like, okay, oh, it is.
Speaker 2:He's with me. We go every year to the beach, to Amelia Island, and they have a skate park, oh yes, and we always make a point to go and sit at the skate park I can't say the word skate park and just watch the skaters, because Alec would have been there every night. Yeah, you know, and that's just where. But it, it, it brings me comfort To go and watch, to go and watch.
Speaker 1:Was that something you could have done those first couple of years?
Speaker 2:I did it the first. So Alec passed away in 2019 and 2020 was the first time that we went with my family, my mom and dad and all the cousins and my sister and everybody and we went there and, yeah, it was right there, and everybody drove in, like my parents drove in and my sister and her family drove in, and then we were there, but they were like it was right outside our condo, oh my gosh. And we were like, oh my gosh, we didn't know how unusual.
Speaker 1:I've been to a lot of beaches and I've never once seen this cake park and the fact that it was right there.
Speaker 2:I know we were like Alec would have loved this, like they were all like. I wonder what Amy's going to do. I wonder how Amy's going to. You know to me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, cause it just seemed so out of the ordinary.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, and I was like which it is? It is Alec would have loved this and so we would. I mean, I would go down there a lot of nights and Jeff would go with me and the kids would sometimes go with us and stuff, but I would walk down there every night and then we went for several other years afterwards and now we're not in that same condo because all the kids are bigger and we've got a different place, but anyway. But yeah, it's comforting to me to go to skate parks and watch.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean this is kind of a silly question because we don't know you and I don't know the answer, obviously talking about this. But what advice should we give ourselves? You know, like when we're thinking about caring for these vacations and you're angry and don't want to go and I get such high anxiety.
Speaker 2:Um, what want to give you? The advice of just deep breaths and maybe a few days ahead at home. Look for the Carter bracelet. Look you know, make sure you know where all those things are just to know. I mean, I know that you always know where they are, but you don't know where they are. So I'm like, right, so I took it off to wash my hands or whatever, but just maybe keep those closer.
Speaker 1:Yeah, be a little more intentional about setting that out. Yeah, and what do you?
Speaker 2:think the anxiety is for Like, why, like I think pinpoint or not. Really, we can't always pinpoint, but I mean, I'm you know me, I'm real big on. I need to internalize this, I need to figure out why. Why did I freak out about a passport? Yeah, and Jeff telling me I need to call and make an appointment and I was like, no, I've already called, we don't need to make an appointment.
Speaker 1:You know like, well, and for me what I have kind of unpacked and you know, you and I have talked about this before, but just there's such a sadness for me with vacations, in particular for greta not having a sibling. Yeah, so it's. You know, here's what. They're two old parents, and you know and. And then there's greta, yeah, and we're not gonna wake board with her, we'll drive the bus, but yeah and it just there's.
Speaker 1:Just I think it's not, I think I know there's. I feel such sadness about it and I, I and I don't have the answer for myself. I feel like when we traveled last summer, it was a big trip. You know, we brought well on most trips.
Speaker 1:Since we've lost Carter, greta has brought a friend on all of our little vacations, but she didn't on this one, did she? No, you think that had something to do with it. I think that was part of the anxiety was like, how's this going to play out? And you know, there's a lot of cousins in Michigan, but they're all teenagers and they all have jobs, and that is exactly what happened. She only got to see one of the six, you know, um, and it was only one day, and so that was, you know, um, and she did fine, but it just wasn't the trip that I was hoping and she was hoping, and I think that is exactly what the anxiety is, um just the not knowing cause you hadn't done it like that before.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and just how would how would she do, and you know um and it ended up being fine, for sure, you know. But there is, there is a sadness, for sure that I need to work through, for sure yeah, and it's, I mean, I think, a lot of us going into different situations.
Speaker 2:We all I'm not gonna say we all, but I know that I'll get anxiety about stuff too. Like just the unknown.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because it's out of our comfort zone and we've gotten. So. I don't want to say comfortable and confident, but it's hard to brand, it's hard to do something new sometimes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, when you are in that stage where you're like I don't want to go, Does it help to look at some of the things you're doing that on that trip to go? Oh gosh, this will be really fun to experience this with Jeff and Layla.
Speaker 2:It does help knowing that I I look at it more of like I kind of said earlier of it I am getting to spend time with family and they're not going to be here forever, right, and we might not have another opportunity to take these great trips Right Together, or even, you know, financially or whatever, yeah, and so I really do believe, deep down and on the surface, that we need to take advantage of all the moments that we can, whether we want to be there or not. Even if we just exist in the moment and we don't take advantage of it, I think I, I, I tell myself, even if you just exist, you're there, yeah, you might not can do all the things mentally or physically or whatever, but you just, you just need to be present.
Speaker 1:Well, and that makes me think about, like, just even talking through it with Greta, like probably she doesn't have all the same anxiety that I do, of course, and so you know, and giving her the option, you know of what would you want to invite a friend, and you know what are you looking forward to? And you know, do you hope that I go on the tube with you, which of course I'd be glad to. But just what is she picturing? If anything, like, what are her expectations?
Speaker 2:And most likely it's very it has nothing to do with what you have worried about.
Speaker 2:That probably would be helpful too, of just talking through and then also telling Jeremy how anxious I am yes, recognizing that before you're in the frenzy you know well, and I think that, especially like with aunts and uncles, or like siblings or in-laws or whatever like that in my situation, they think that Alec passed away five years ago, you know, and they loved him, just like you know they would a niece or a nephew or a cousin or whatever. But, and I know for some they remember him being there because we went on family vacations every year. You know, we've always gone on family vacations, we've always been together on those vacations, but for me it's every day. Yeah, it hasn't been five years ago, and I just feel like a lot of times people expect me maybe not expect me to be happy and you know, know, doing what I never frolicked in the waves of the beach, don't get me wrong on that, never. But um, but I think they just want me to be good always always.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that there isn't the sadness behind your eyes, yeah, and they're like well, it's been five years, she's good, you know, and so, but no, is sadness, and I don't think that, like I said, it's just. I think we all feel that way sometimes, like they don't realize every moment of every day he's missing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's just. Yeah, you're kind of shoving it back down, and some days are harder than others to do that, and some days it rears its ugly head and you yell at somebody and I see it even when I bring up you know something with family, about Carter you know, um, or coworkers or whatever, and there's this little sort of flutter that they do, you know, like oh gosh, what is she going to say about that?
Speaker 1:You know, and they're, and you know, and I'm sure some of it's internalized of me, just my own worries about talking about it.
Speaker 2:Oh, no, people's eyes, they don't blink. Yeah, it's like, oh, yeah, we're going there. Yeah, oh, okay, yeah, and they have this smile and they don't blink. Yeah, exactly, yeah.
Speaker 1:I guess Exactly, yeah, and I think that's part of that anxiety too, Cause I I know I will be talking about Carter, you know, and there are memories that I will share.
Speaker 2:And then, well, but with my family and Jeff's family and stuff like that, we do talk freely. It's not a like, it'll be like Sean was like oh and. Alec would never do this or Alec, always did this you know, like we were just talking about going to.
Speaker 2:He didn't ride roller coasters, like, yeah, we go to Six Flags and Bailey and Chase were never tall enough and Alec wouldn't ride them, so I had to be on those little kiddie rides. You know, here I was the super tall, you know. Yeah, little guy on the kiddie ride at Six Flags, so yeah, but um, yeah, the joy yes the joy and sorrow of basically summer and vacations and just another time that they're not with us.
Speaker 1:I know Jeremy and I were talking the other night and I mean we're coming up on eight years, which I just cannot even believe, and I said I mean maximum it's been three years, maximum, I mean most days were just coming up on two years. That's what it feels like.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah. Well, we just hit five, and May was five years, and I would say three, maybe two or three.
Speaker 1:It's just, it's just so wild yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I still sometimes I'm at the point of oh, I told you I read Spare, oh, yes, prince Harry, yes, oh yes, prince Harry, yes, harry's book. And he kept saying about his mom, about how he just kind of realized or thought that she was just going to show up one day Like she wasn't really dead, she was faking her death because he never saw the evidence, or anything Gosh.
Speaker 2:And I'm the same way, yeah, and I kept. I went oh, oh my gosh, I identify with that so much. Yeah, because I continue to believe, because I never saw the evidence. Yeah, I never saw it. He's just he'll be back, yeah, you know. So I still. Then I'm getting better about believing that he's not coming back, but you know, but I identified with that so much. Isn't that something?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So like I'm like, oh, I'll take the skate park, yeah.
Speaker 1:But he's not. Yeah, oh my gosh. Well, in our next like one of our quick little vacations this summer is going to one of Carter's friends' wedding. Oh gosh, and I mean it'll be the first one that we've gone to. Good luck, yeah. And I mean I already have anxiety about and I mean there's no doubt I want to be there.
Speaker 1:Yes, Um cause I think I had told you that there was another friend of Carter's and we didn't go and I just felt, you know, bad, oh terrible, and and um, they even a yellow butterfly had landed on her bouquet and this kid, Dylan, had sent it to us, you know, and it was like Carter was here and I was like, oh my gosh, and we're not, you know so, but it's, it's to be really tough for sure. Yeah, but then joy, right, Because I'm so happy for Nate. Well, yeah, and it's not that you're not happy for them.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, it's amazing how much we power through. Yeah, warrior moms, we're warriors. We just slice right over, just take our sword.
Speaker 1:Well, this was good to catch up, I know the two of us haven't physically seen each other for a little while.
Speaker 2:No, we just, like you said, go in just different ways, different times, and I love connecting with you and talking to you through this, because you know what I'm going through.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, and no matter what type of grief, all of us carry it and any human can understand the sadness, right, because grief is in every one of our lives.
Speaker 2:Grief is grief. You might not have lost a child, but there's so many different levels of grief.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think that's you know. We just need to give ourself a little more grace on that. You know, grace, face it, know it. Yes, talk about it, which is what you and I do really well, yes, which is what I think helps For sure.
Speaker 2:Well, until next time. Until next time. I don't know when it'll be, but it will be. It'll be soon. Yes, till next time. Thanks, guys, bye it's still.