Warrior Moms: Surviving Child Loss
This podcast features Amy Durham and Michele Davis, two of the Warrior Moms, who will guide listeners through their grief journey. Every fourth or fifth episode will showcase another Warrior Mom, the trauma they endured, stories about their beloved child, and tips on how they get out of bed every day.
Each and every Warrior Moms' story is different, the children and the loss is different, but one thing they share is the decision to live. They have figured out how to live life putting one foot in the past and the other moving forward. Yes, it's beyond awful. Yes, it's hard. Yes, it's worth it. And yes, they say, you can survive child loss AND thrive.
Warrior Moms: Surviving Child Loss
Sibling Series: Emily McHenry, Jamie McHenry's Sister, Christine McHenry's Daughter: Ep25
To say we are honored to witness such joy and bravery is an understatement. Emily McHenry, you amaze us. Thank you for sharing your wisdom and joy.
When Emily McHenry speaks about her brother Jamie, you can hear the love and loss in every word. Our heartfelt conversation with Emily reveals the poignant journey of a sibling's bond tested by the untimely passing of her brother. We travel through Emily's treasured memories, the laughter, and the tears, delving into how her family's love crafted a foundation of resilience amid their profound loss. The narrative of Jamie's life and his lasting influence on Emily's own path, including her pursuit of lacrosse and joy, creates a vivid backdrop for this episode.
As Emily recounts the aftermath of Jamie's death, we uncover the power of vulnerability and community in the healing process. We touch on the remarkable way parents face their grief while supporting their children, and Emily's admiration for her own parents' strength in such times. Her experiences underscore the importance of communal support, like the Jamie's Rocketshot 5k, which serves not just as a tribute but as a way to honor Jamie. This conversation is a testament to the ways in which a community can wrap its arms around those who are mourning, offering a shared strength that endures.
The episode concludes with a compassionate look at the nuances of grieving, as Emily shares how embracing every emotion has been crucial to her journey. We explore her use of journaling as a therapeutic outlet, the importance of creating new traditions to honor Jamie, and the ongoing quest to find balance between joy and sorrow. By sharing her story, Emily offers insights and guidance to anyone navigating grief, illustrating how personal growth and the discovery of individual coping strategies are possible even in the darkest of times. Join us for this touching tribute and learn how celebrating memories can lead us towards healing and hope.
"Dream Bird" by Jonny Easton
Thank you for listening to Warrior Moms podcast. It is an honor to share about our beloved children gone too soon, and we hope by telling of our loss, it may help someone in their grief journey. Please note that we are not medical professionals and encourage those listening to seek help from mental health professionals.
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Website: https://www.warriormoms.me/
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With love,
Warrior Moms Amy & Michele
Well, welcome to Warrior Moms. We're so glad you're here this morning. I am Michelle.
Speaker 2:And I'm Amy and this is a segment that I've been antsy to get to, just as a mom myself we have got a sibling of one of our angels. We have Emily McHenry. He was Jamie McHenry's sister, younger sister, and we heard Christine the mom a few weeks ago. Correct, michelle? Yes, yes, emily, tell us, tell us who you are.
Speaker 3:Hey everybody, my name is Emily McHenry. I am a senior at Georgia Southern University. I have one semester left, so I'm almost done. The light's at the end of the tunnel and I'm excited. So, yeah, I'm really happy to be here today. Thanks for asking me to be here.
Speaker 2:I feel like we're going to grill you with all sorts of questions. As moms, you know talking to someone, so you know. So beware.
Speaker 1:But we're so glad that you're here and you know it's a hard topic, but yet it's a topic that you know. You're, I know, as you said, you're so proud to talk about Jamie and you're open about just your own grief journey and we're so glad for that. So, thank you. Tell us about you and your goofy brother. What was Jamie like? He?
Speaker 3:was just like that cooler older brother. You know that every little sister admires and you know everything he did in my eyes was just like the coolest thing ever. He played lacrosse. So I wanted to play lacrosse like yeah everything he did, I was like, oh my gosh, he is so cool, I want to be exactly like him and I think he would kind of get annoyed by that a little bit, just like me, his little sister copying every little thing he did. Yeah, he was just, you know, so cool like that.
Speaker 2:So did he pick on you?
Speaker 3:let's be honest, oh my gosh so many times, yeah, so many times. A lot of our conversations were just arguing because we both thought we were right and half the time the other two of us were right. What was the age difference between y'all? He was 13. I was 11. So we were, like you know, two years apart.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh my gosh, I love it when you think about some of that. You know, like cool brother, what's a favorite memory you think when you think of Jamie?
Speaker 3:where's your mind go to? Definitely lacrosse. So he was a big athlete all around. He played basketball, he played football, you know, but he started playing lacrosse and he was really good. He was just a huge stud at it. And one of my favorite memories, looking back at it, is him kind of teaching me how to play lacrosse. Like I said, I wanted to be exactly like him. So I was like, yeah, teach me how to play lacrosse. And so we would be out in our driveway every day and he'd be teaching me the fundamentals. He'd be so patient, like this was one of the times neither of us were yelling at each other because we, we he was actually like really good, like mentor and coach. So and then I went on to play lacrosse even after Jamie passed away for 13 years. So I I really do owe it all to him. He taught me everything I learned.
Speaker 3:I love it so much.
Speaker 1:Well, um, let's talk about that that. So Jamie was 13 and you were 11, you said when Jamie passed so what grade were you, Emily, at 11?
Speaker 3:I was in fifth grade. Fifth grade.
Speaker 1:And that's kind of that quintessential grade where you're ending sort of the elementary, what's kind of that? You know, quintessential grade where you're ending, sort of the elementary. You're getting ready for, you know, the next step of middle school. Did your middle school start in sixth grade? Yes, it did, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:And were you going into fifth grade or going into sixth grade? I was going in the spring.
Speaker 1:I was ending fifth grade. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So take us back, if you don't mind, to that spring break time.
Speaker 3:Okay, so what you remember.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's what you remember.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So you know, the brain kind of has a funny way of going into self-defense mode by blocking out a lot of those memories or blurring them because they were so traumatic. But yeah, I remember, um, you know, jamie had went on a spring break trip with one of his close friends and their family and me, my mom and my dad we went to I think it was north carolina or tennessee, I don't really. We went to I think it was North Carolina or Tennessee, I don't really remember. We went for like a mountain weekend. We did hiking, did golf, like all that fun stuff.
Speaker 3:And I remember the day the accident happened. I do remember it was around dinnertime, maybe a little bit after dinnertime. It was around dinner time, maybe a little bit after dinner time and my dad got a call from the family that Jamie was with and delivering. You know the news of the accident and this is kind of where it's like a blur to remember. But I remember you obviously a lot of crying. You know me and my family were holding each other and and then I remember I I genuinely do not remember how like the ride home at all, I cannot remember a second of that, but I remember getting home and but yeah, that's it's. It's so weird when I think about it because you would think such a big day like that, you would remember everything, but because it was so awful, yeah.
Speaker 1:Well and. I think you're right that everything that we've read, certainly, exactly as you say, our brain protects us, yeah, and, you know, allows us kind of just these little moments to. You know that we have to sort through, but yet it is so that we can get to the next moment and to the next moment, you know, and so it somehow softens those memories in some ways.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I totally agree, and I think a lot of it also had to do with being so young. Had to do with being so young and I almost think at my age I didn't really understand what like was happening, why it was happening. You know, when you're 11, you don't really understand why or what everything is happening. So I don't, I don't know if it was like a self-protection thing, like, but it's also part of the grieving process. Is denial, like being like this isn't actually happening.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, when you didn't see it when you weren't there and you weren't visualizing, you know, because 11 you're pretty much this is what's real and that's what's not. Yeah, yeah, exactly, you know yeah, did you?
Speaker 1:do you remember? Did you go back to school right away? Did you stay home for a bit?
Speaker 3:So so I did not go back to school right away. I think I waited about two weeks and I just I remember, like I again, I think it's the brain's way of protecting ourselves. But up until the end of that year 2013, when it happened, a lot of it is just like a blur, like you said, trying to get to the next part, the next moment.
Speaker 1:Yeah, exactly part of the next moment. Yeah, exactly yeah. Was there something during that time period that kind of gave you comfort? You know that I remember reading in those first couple of days. It was like give your children routine, get them back to routine as fast as possible. Was there something you remember that it was like oh, I'm glad that I get to do X, that I'm back doing this.
Speaker 3:So I was super fortunate or my family, we're super fortunate to have such an amazing community around us, so many great friends and family. That would do anything for us. And I remember some of my really close friends. They were just amazing because they didn't close friends. They like they were just amazing because they didn't that I also, still at such a young age, my friends being this mature, they would invite me to like dinner and they wouldn't really ask any questions about what happened, but they would just try and get back into normalcy, like talk about lacrosse and talk about school. Yeah, and I I remember I was like I've never been more thankful and I look back at it now how mature these you know my friends are, who I'm still friends with today, to be able to recognize like hey, don't, you know, push any limits with asking questions about Jamie or the details or how I'm feeling and just getting me out of the house and I was so thankful.
Speaker 3:And then lacrosse is like a huge part of my life and being able to, even if it was just for an hour during the game, just leave everything out on the field like play and have your mind in a different world.
Speaker 2:Right, exactly, you were in your own world, that you didn't have to worry about whatever was out there. Right, exactly, exactly yeah we have that.
Speaker 1:One of the things that I know a lot of moms talk about and worry about is just, you know, we worry that. You know that we change, that we lose a piece of the mom that we were before and that we worry for that. You know, like for Greta, I grieve for that, gosh, I wish I could get back to you know how I was before. We lost Carter and yet you know, I think Greta feels like she's got a great life and she's got a great childhood. When you think back about just your mom and dad's grief, are there moments that you really remember and things that you worried about or that you wanted to do for them during those kind of first couple years.
Speaker 3:I definitely remember thinking how kind of different, or maybe even a little bit weird it was to like see my parents let down their guard a little bit. You know, be vulnerable and deal with coping and you know, see, you don't really growing up I never really saw my parents cry.
Speaker 3:I feel like that's kind of like a thing that a lot of children they don't really ever see their parents cry that much and I remember, you know, seeing my parents go through it and I going through this at such a young age.
Speaker 3:I was forced to grow up and mature very early on and I realized, like you know, my parents have this awful situation but they're still providing for me and caring for me and loving me and I don't know. I realized then I was like they are going through this hell of a situation with losing one of their kids, but they went the extra mile to show me love, say like hey, you know we still love you, we still care about you. We know we're talking about Jamie a lot. We know we're, you know. So I just remember I'm fortunate with my parents because they went out of their way to show that they're here for me, even though they're also going through it Right. So I think that was like a huge thing. I really think my family got really close because of it. In the weirdest way it was like a bonding for lack of a better word a bonding situation.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a great way to explain it. You now have a different bond with your parents that you would not have had. You still would have had a bond with your parents, yeah, but you definitely have a different bond now than you would have. Jamie, we're still here, right?
Speaker 3:And I think another big thing that my parents did that helped a lot is I don't really know how to phrase it I guess they would never beat around the bush Like they would never be afraid they're not that type.
Speaker 2:Right, right, exactly. Your mom's not going to beat around any bush, she's going to beat straight through it.
Speaker 3:They were, but they wouldn't be afraid. They would want to talk about memories and talk about Jamie. They wouldn't ever try, and I don't know how to say it.
Speaker 2:They're not going to hold back.
Speaker 3:Right, they wanted to embrace all this. They're not going to tiptoe around the issue.
Speaker 2:They're not going to tiptoe around the subject. It is there, this is the way it is, and this is the way it's going to be, exactly which I love.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and it really has helped me like be able to be so open about Jamie and what happened. It's like now I can fully talk about it and remember all the memories and not-.
Speaker 2:Do you think that it's helped you open up about other things in your life with your parents?
Speaker 3:yes, yeah, definitely yes. Um, just being more vulnerable, I always kind of even after Jamie, I was always trying to be like cool, you know not really show my parents, my emotions or whatever, but I mean my parents. They are two of the strongest. They are the strongest people I know. They've been through hell and back with this and I have nothing but utmost respect for them and how they handled it with me. You know they were still raising me. I was only 11 years old, Right?
Speaker 2:You were just entering the worst years of a parent and a teenager. You were going into your teenage years, that's all.
Speaker 3:Yes, exactly, and they are. Just I don't know. I would never admit it to my mom, because you guys know my mom she would, she would, but she's really. She's handled this whole thing with just class and grace. I have so much respect for both of them. I'm really thankful.
Speaker 1:I love that and one of the things I wanted to ask you about that I think you know your mom was so instrumental is you know Jamie's rocket shop that mom and dad put together. What was you know? So explain, I guess, just what that was. And then how did that help you, or how was it? You know, was that part kind of hard or was it great for you Talk about that a little.
Speaker 3:I saw the rocket shot and all of the other things we did as amazing Like I just really. This might sound bad, but I didn't find it very hard to do because I knew that that's what Jamie would want us to do is like find ways to get back to the community or no?
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, and so the rocket shot. It's a 5k that we do every year. Unfortunately, I've not been able to go for the past four years because of college. But right, I you know we. It's been going on for um 11 years now and it is just the most up like gives me the most comfort and peace. Knowing my community like, even after all these years, sits behind me and my family with Jamie, and still wants to.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 3:Like show up and do things for him. I just like I get so like I like choke up thinking about it. Yeah, I'm so thankful. I like choke up thinking about it because I'm so thankful, like my best friends I may all my friends who went to different colleges. They still come to the rocket shots like something. No matter where everybody is who was there during the accident, no matter where everybody is at that point in their lives, they'll always find a way to come. And I just find so much like love and support from that, you know, and it's just really a cool thing just seeing all the different types of people come out On top of the Rocket Shot. We also have a lacrosse team called Team 8. It's a memorial team in Jamie's name and everybody from Team 8 comes out to the rocket shot Everyone from my high school, everyone from the community. It's just so cool seeing, after all these years, people still showing up and showing their love for my family. So I'm so thankful for it.
Speaker 1:I went this year and it's exactly as you say and it's a huge showing of people and just the way you are, emily, and you know knowing your mom and dad, it's exactly it's honoring Jamie and then it's joyful. You know there's a band that plays along the way. You know as you're walking or running, you know people carry like a boom box and you know walking and yeah, it's just, it was a lot of fun and I think, just you know, not knowing Jamie, but being there, you get a sense of that, that love and passion for one another, and it's exactly what you say.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I think it's one of the like lights that came out of a really dark time. It really has, I think, changed our lives. Obviously, after Jamie's accident it just again I'm beating the dead horse with this, but we have such a great community, really do.
Speaker 1:I'm forever thankful to my community so well and what would you say, you know, if you had to give advice to um someone that's you know recently lost somebody? What would you say to the community your friends, especially friends your age I know you said your friends were so good what would be some advice you might give?
Speaker 3:I think everybody's situation's different, but to know that you're not alone even if you feel like you are, you're never alone. There's always people like the warrior moms. There's always people like the warrior moms like you guys. There's always clubs. I joined when I was 11. When it happened, my mom put me in this club called Kate's Club and it was this little program based out of Atlanta and they you know, it's all different kids that age that have lost a family member, being a parent or a sibling, and you just can talk freely in a safe space with people who have been in your situation. So I think my advice for people who are going through something like this is it's hard. It's never not going to be hard. I think the biggest thing is to find, figure out how you can get back to some sort of normalcy. That's going to be your saving grace is finding ways to cope, and you know, I don't know it's it's hard.
Speaker 2:It really is. And, emily, when you would see your parents get upset, how did you feel Like? And did you feel like you needed to take care of them? Or, or you know like, cause that's something that I'm always like, I'm conscious of, when I get upset around Layla, cause she doesn't feel like she needs to take care of me, but I'm the mom I'm supposed to take care of her, you know, it's that kind of weird.
Speaker 3:I think honestly. At first it was weird, it was hard being like, oh my gosh, my parents you know my two pillars of support and foundation they're crying, they're upset. What am I supposed to do? Like I almost felt helpless. But as time went on I realized it was good that they were sharing that side with me, that they were saying, hey, it's okay to cry about it, it's okay to be upset. Um, but I mean you do as, like a, as a child, you feel like you need to take care of your parents, but I mean there's no looking back. I'm thankful for them being able to express those emotions with me, because it taught me that I can be sad too.
Speaker 2:You know, yeah, yeah, that makes sense, and it is hard and this is sad, but we can persevere and put one foot in front of the other and we can do joyous things, like the rocket shot, and find joy in it. Yeah, it's for a sad reason. This is joyful and it is. It brings joy to you and the whole community basically, which is great, right.
Speaker 3:And so I remember, right after it happened, our front door was like a revolving door of people just coming to express their condolences and give us food and stuff, whatever. I remember seeing my parents and their interactions with these people and they seemed sad but they were kind of, you know, getting through it, putting one foot in front of the other, and I was like me, as an 11 year old, looking at them, I'm like they don't even seem sad. But then when I did see them and you know, when everybody was gone, when it was just us see them get emotional, I was like okay, they just, you know, they're putting up a little bit of a front just so they can get through the day.
Speaker 3:But they are sad and that made me in the weirdest way. It made me feel better because it gave you comfort because you were so sad.
Speaker 3:Right, exactly, and I didn't want to feel like I had to, you know, hold all those emotions in. Yeah, and I was so thankful because when I would see my parents get upset, I didn't feel I felt comfortable enough to like talk with them. And you know we would talk and we would share stories and just reminisce, and it's hard and it's sad and there was a lot of tears and a lot of pain, but it's, I think it's necessary to feel all those feelings, especially with your family, because they are always going to be in your corner in the same situation that you are in, and it just was very helpful being able to feel those feelings and share all the memories and, you know, feel all of that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, exactly, yeah. So sometimes I think that siblings could feel like they were lost in the shadow of their deceased sibling. Do you, I mean? And I don't know that you've ever felt that way, but I can totally see how that can happen a lot of times. Yeah, go ahead. Sorry, no, I was just going to say like how would you recommend or like dealing with that if somebody was feeling that way, or if the parents are like gosh, I feel like I talk about Jamie all the time and we need to talk about your. Mom is great at doing the balance. You know, I feel like I don't know how you feel, but I feel like she's great at doing the balance. I feel like Michelle and I do a good job, but I do feel like there are some people that probably have a hard time with that.
Speaker 3:Right, I think my parents, like I was saying, they kind of went the extra mile to address the fact that it would be like, hey, I know we're talking a lot about Jamie, but we still see you, we're still here with you, we love you. We want you to feel important, yeah, you know to feel important. Yeah, and even though we're going through this time, we, we want you to know that we still, yeah, we love you at your events.
Speaker 2:They would go to your lacrosse. Well, I think there's some moms that can't even get up and go to their. Yeah, well, crossgate, you know.
Speaker 1:So, right, well, it sounds like they really verbalized all these things Like here's what we're feeling, here's what we want you to notice and understand, and just putting voice to what they were doing.
Speaker 3:I think communication is a huge thing and, like I, was only 11. So, and I think it's hard if the sibling is younger, but just being straight up saying like you said, communication, like just saying, hey, we know we're talking about Jamie a lot. What do you feel? Asking how they feel, yeah, getting them like to talk about it, I remember my mom would always be like what do you feel? Like what? Why are you sad? Like asking all the questions like that maybe are a little uncomfortable, but just being able to verbalize it as an 11 year old, like it made me feel very valid most 11 year olds can't verbalize any of that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, exactly. But I just remember Did you have to like in your later teens, did you revisit that in a whole? Nother way, like. I remember one counselor you know Greta was eight when we lost Carter, but one counselor said when she's older she's going to revisit this, she's going to have to walk through that accident in now sort of a more adult way. Do you have that experience?
Speaker 3:I do, but I feel like the worst feelings I felt were when it happened and then moving forward just because my parents handled it in such a respectful and mature way for me it wasn't as hard as the first time, wasn't like as hard as the first time, like obviously, growing up, you know, when I was in high school, I, I would always think about it, you know, playing lacrosse, just everything reminded me of it. But we just had again such a great like community.
Speaker 2:I had such great parents like getting me through it letting me feel all the sadness and letting me cope at 11, not telling me to suck it up and just right, yeah, or or to like, just.
Speaker 3:I feel like I remember when I was in kids club, I was talking with some other kids who have lost siblings and their parents would like tell them to distract themselves from like their feelings and not address them, and I was like, I think, looking back now, I'm very thankful for my parents to do it right away. You know, I mean, it's hard and I can see, as a parent, you could want to be like sheltering your kid, a little bit, like protecting them from the bad of like yes, this happened to you, but I think, honestly, the best way to do it is be honest, feel and communicate. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:And that's where I agree, like I think that because of feeling the feels and allowing themselves to feel the feels in front of you and with you and all of you together, I think that is so healthy Because it does allow your mom to get off the couch and go to the games and cut up with you and all that kind of stuff, where if you just hold those feelings in all the time, it makes you bitter and angry at least for me, and that's what I see, and I think y'all have done a wonderful job and I think the fact that your mom how do you feel about the fact that your mom has walked through that before with her brother?
Speaker 3:I know I always like think about it's just so weird, like that's such a weird thing to grasp. You know she went through it so weird, like that's such a weird thing to grasp, you know. Yeah, she went through it. My grandmother, her mom went through it like and then we had to go through it like it's just weird.
Speaker 3:Yeah, always such a weird thing to think about, but really my mom is the strongest person ever and anybody who's met my mom. She's so lively, she's so full of life she is always the life of the party. Yes, I think a lot of her being that way is because she wants to live through and for Jamie. Living life, being positive, being kind. She's really the epitome of a strong woman who's seen it all, and I'm just so proud of her and my dad both of them well she leads us the world so she leads us, she is a true leader to us, to show us that you can make every day matter.
Speaker 2:you know, enjoy every day, and joy and sorrow does coexist. Right, absolutely.
Speaker 1:Exactly yes, when you, when you went to college, um, how did you you know when you're talking about your family, did you? Um, do you have sort of any strategies or advice for you know the other siblings? Like, how do you talk about this with new friends? It?
Speaker 3:is awkward and it you don't think it's going to come up in conversations. Because when I went to college, you know I kind of had the backbone of this community and everybody kind of knew what happened. And then when I went off to college knew, yeah, and it is awkward, you know you, you get in conversations with your friends about their families and then they turn to you they're like oh so, like, do you have any brothers or sisters? And at first, if I didn't feel at first I was not comfortable talking yeah, so freely about it, I would get very choked up about sharing what happened with Jamie.
Speaker 3:Now as I'm a little bit older, I can freely talk about it.
Speaker 2:Experience. You've had more experience with it, yeah.
Speaker 3:So honestly and I feel like a lot of people who have gone through this probably relate when people would ask me if I had any siblings, I would just be like, no, I'm an only child, just don't want to talk about it. But now, because I am so comfortable and I want people to know Jamie's story and my family's story, I do like I feel very comfortable and like I'm happy to talk about it. But my biggest piece of advice is when you, when you're ready to share with people, you'll know.
Speaker 1:if you don't feel comfortable with people, just you don't have to have to share you know yeah yeah and I think that's so freeing to hear because, um, you know, I think that, especially from a sibling side of it, and there isn't any right way to do this grief journey.
Speaker 2:And.
Speaker 1:I love how you phrased. Like your mom, like you're living through this might be that you're just going to say you're an only child, and then other days you can say, no, I have a brother and he's just not with us anymore.
Speaker 3:I remember feeling that I don't want people to when I tell them this. I don't want people to feel bad or treat me a certain way, because you know that's just how I felt. I was like, oh God, I don't want people to be like, oh, she's a, you know, she's sad, she lost her brother.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:But, like you said, you know, if you're not feeling like you want to say, you don't have to tell anybody. You can just I mean people who you want to know. That's your decision, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and yeah, people who you want to know, that's your decision, you know, yeah, yeah, and you'll find your, you'll find your time, right, right, I mean it'll, it'll come when it needs to come yes, exactly exactly, yeah, what? What are some of the ways? I mean, obviously you you have the rocket shot, um, and you have, you know, team eight, but what are some like other ways that you just in your maybe day-to-day life, that you celebrate your brother?
Speaker 3:Um, I, I'm, I, I'm like my mom, I hate to say it she she's going to hold me to that.
Speaker 3:But as I've grown older, I'm like, oh my God, I am my mom, I'm just, I like to be kind. As I've grown older, I'm like, oh my god, I am my mom, I'm just. I like to be kind, I like to pay it forward when I can help people who need help, I like to talk to everybody, even if it's a passing stranger I'll never meet again. I just like to, you know, live life every day with the most amount of joy and happiness as I can, because I know what I've gone through. I know that I've gone through hell with losing a brother, my family too.
Speaker 3:And now, moving forward, I think I owe it to myself to choose to be joyful because, like you said, joyful and sorrow can coexist and it never really gets easier, but it definitely. You can learn how to be happy and find the little things that remind you of the people you lost. Instead of choosing to be sad about little reminders, I choose to say like hey, you know he's with me every day. I wear my Live for Jamie bracelet every day, and a new tradition that I've recently established in my life is, every year on Jamie's passing date, me and all my friends. You know this was in college, so me and all my friends would release balloons.
Speaker 3:Um, and it was. It's just. I think it was a really nice thing to have to. You know, remember, take the time to.
Speaker 1:Really, I don't know it was just Well and with your new friends and your new space. You know, and that was your community that you created. You know that you did that.
Speaker 3:Yes, yeah, and it's just very nice, like you said, I mean, it was all my new friends, so they don't know, they never met my brother, they never met my family, but they still show up to support and I just I've been so blessed and lucky to have the people I have in my life, just constant support, even my college friends, and so I will forever be thankful for.
Speaker 2:But you put that out there, emily. You put that out there and you're allowing people to come in your world and celebrate him. Yeah, I mean, it's how you present yourself. I think a lot in the whole situation of yeah, this sucks, yeah, but I have joy that he lived, I have joy that he was my brother and you know it well and I love that you say, and you, you do this for yourself right Deserve to be happy.
Speaker 1:I mean, what, what a gift for a young woman to know that. I mean, it's just extraordinary. I just I am listening.
Speaker 2:I honor you with a cape.
Speaker 3:Yes, you are a warrior sister. I'm so thankful, you know, for everything that's happened.
Speaker 2:I'm going to change the subject for a minute. So was it your freshman or sophomore year? You lost a friend at Georgia Southern.
Speaker 3:Yes, so my freshman year, one of my close friends named Cole Cooey. He got also in a car accident and he passed away and that was actually like when you asked about like reliving it as growing up, that was a huge like weird way Back to the day, didn't it?
Speaker 3:Yes, Because I think, because I was older, you know, I was 20 when Cole died. I think just living that, grieving Cole and but then also being like this is what it would have been like if I was 20 when Jamie died. You know, like it was really weird, the whole, the feelings I felt. It was just like oh, like, oh, my God, you know. Reliving it yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:Reliving it, but yet different it was just yeah, and I remember calling my mom and I'm like told her what happened and I'm like this is sad, like I'm sad about jamie, I'm sad about cole, like why, why is why? Now am I getting sad about jamie? When cole just died, you know, like I felt like conflicted. I was like I should be sad about Cole, but then I'm like Also sad.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I always feel selfish. Anytime we lose somebody else that was associated with Alec or something like that, I feel guilty because I'm more. I'm sad for I'm sad about Alec, yeah, my son, you know. Yes, I'm sad about them, but I'm sad about you know. It does it brings all of that emotion. Yeah, you said I feel selfish for being sad about me, but I'm, you know, yes, it is, but it does. It resurfaces those emotions and it will.
Speaker 3:It'll continue to do that, right, I think grief is the weirdest journey somebody has to go through. Like it'll be the most random things that remind you of the person you lost and like I'll be like walking on my college campus and I'll see something so random could could have nothing to do with, like Jamie, yeah, but for whatever reason, I'm like, oh my God, like I'm sad, but I think it's a good thing to feel that still now I'm almost 23 years old. That's crazy. You're so old, but it's just so nice to have people like you guys. And you know, for people who I know have been through it, that can relate, you know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what do you do on those those sad days? What do you do to help yourself get to finding joy again?
Speaker 3:I just, I'm a very firm believer in feeling all the feelings. So when I'm sad, I I allow myself to be sad, I allow myself to look through pictures and remember and a huge thing that I've recently started doing. I didn't do this when I was younger, but in college I've started just writing like journaling, and I know that's kind of like a very cliche piece of advice, but-.
Speaker 2:No, it's just amazing yeah, and what else?
Speaker 3:when I'm sad feeling sad about Jamie, but I don't really know why I'm feeling sad I set a timer on my phone for five minutes and I just write anything that I'm comes to my mind and it's been the most freeing, like, yeah, I don't know, it's very, it's such a great fight out of here where it's all jumbled up, yeah, and then it just gets it out because I don't know what do you think the timer does for you?
Speaker 3:I love that I think it's just because I often find myself and I'm feeling sad about Jamie, but I don't know why Just setting a timer and being like, okay, this five minutes, seven minutes, eight minutes I'm going to devote to trying to put my feelings into words and it's just, it's helped, and I'll be like, bawling, crying, writing, but like, for those five minutes I allow myself to do it and then, when that timer goes off, get myself together and I'm like that was like so freeing and helpful.
Speaker 3:Now I can go about my day because I feel like if you prolong that sadness, it's just going to. You know what I mean yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, well we know, oh my gosh this has raised you well, emily I love you.
Speaker 3:I think going through this, like I said, it really forced me to become mature at a younger age and I kind of felt like I was emotionally ahead of like maybe some other people, just because of what I'd been through. And so now that I'm 22, I feel like I when I was in high school I would not really, I'd distract myself with things, to not think about Jamie or you know, not accept the sadness, and now I'm just like you know what it's human it's, it's what everybody goes through. When you're grieving someone is to be sad and actually feel all the feelings I.
Speaker 3:I say that all the time I'm like that's my.
Speaker 2:That's my thing too, emily. I feel the feel.
Speaker 3:Yes, yeah I'm like, yeah, yeah, I tell myself. I'm like, emily, you have to feel the lows to be able to experience the highs and the goods of life. And right now, just I just allow myself. When I'm sad, I'm like, okay, I'm gonna take, like I said, five minutes, seven minutes, to just get it figure out what it is I'm feeling and go through it, and then I can move on my day and it's really helped.
Speaker 2:I love that you have learned to in time. Like you said in high school, you didn't, you distracted yourself and you just kept going and going and going, and now kind of like being out on your own and not having somebody there at all times, probably, yes, yes.
Speaker 3:And this I by no means was like the perfect person.
Speaker 3:Going through grieving, I had days where I wanted to sit in bed all day and not talk to anyone, and there were days where I was like binge eating food, comfort food, junk food, whatever you know like yeah. And it took those trials and errors to really figure out what it is that I need to do. And it took, you know, I was 11. Really figure out what it is that I need to do and it took, you know, I was 11. So it took 11 years for me to really figure out how it was, you know, to get through and live my life where I can be happy, but also still live for and through Jamie, and figure out what it was for myself that I needed. And I think that's another piece of advice is you really got to figure out what works for you? For me, I like to talk about it. I like talking to people, I like sharing stories? I don't, but it wasn't always like that, so I guess you can't really say you're perfect person. That's grieving.
Speaker 3:Nobody's perfect and this thing that we're going through it's awful, it's hell and it sucks, but you'll figure it out.
Speaker 1:I think I figured it out maybe, maybe in five years I think it's because you, you all, face it, you talk about it, you honor it and you do it all with such great love. I feel like there's just such I don't know grace and beauty in you and I just can't. I mean what this interview means to both Amy and me and the listeners. I mean just your wisdom is is just treasure. It's amazing. Thank you so much.
Speaker 3:I'm so happy. I'm so happy to be able to share and if I could even just help one person or give them hope.
Speaker 1:I.
Speaker 2:I'll be happy. So well, you just gave two people, yeah, two moms, because, like I said, we both have young girls. I mean, we question every day if we're doing things right. Every mom questions, I'm going to say Questions are regardless.
Speaker 3:But when you?
Speaker 2:add that extra layer of deep sadness into a joyous home, because we're all joyous people, you know, and it's just you know. You just don't want to screw them up again.
Speaker 3:You know you guys are great, though I mean anybody who's going through this as a mother, I can't really obviously give any insights. I haven't gone through it as a mother. I can't really obviously give any insights. I've gone through as a mother but I just being part of warrior moms and you guys being able to share that information with each other, and then this podcast, being able to share it to the world, I think it's so. Oh, sorry, I get a little emotional thinking about it, just because it's so important right it is.
Speaker 3:And for people who are listening and are just going through this, for you guys to be able to give your two cents about everything you've been through. I think it's just amazing. I know that there's some moms out there that feel like they're not doing the right thing or they're not showing up for their kids or family, but it's hard, you know you can't.
Speaker 2:It's hard. Yeah yeah, it effing sucks on so many levels. Yes, yeah.
Speaker 3:And you guys just being at all the levels. Yeah, and my mom. You know she always comes home from warrior moms and I'm like how is it? And she's like it sucks why we're there, but I can't imagine getting through it without these other women.
Speaker 2:A thousand percent. Yeah, a thousand percent.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Knowing that there's somebody in the boat with us.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I knowing that there's somebody in the boat with us. Yeah, I think that's what you shared. You know, emily, is that your parents did so well? Is they shared their own grief? They allowed you to share it and then also to keep experiencing joys and new experiences as a family, and I just, I just think it's such a wealth of advice. We're so grateful that you were here today, of course.
Speaker 2:And I just think it's such a wealth of advice.
Speaker 1:Yes, we're so grateful that you were here today. Of course, guys, it was so good talking to you. Oh my gosh, now you're a celebrity too Rock star, yes.
Speaker 2:We awarded you a cake. Yes, I feel so special.
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh. Well, thank you for joining us and thank you to everyone else until next time, until next time.
Speaker 2:Thank you guys, bye-bye.